Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-01-2010, 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yargnit View Post
The Recon does in fact turn much better in game. ATM it isn't exactly clear how the inertia and tun rate interact with each other (or if turn rate is even a real stat anymore) As the game is currently you're best bet for comparing manuverability is to look at the inertia stat exclusively until we can figure out if turn rate really exists and what it currently is.

Recon turns almost as well as the t3 (Akria style) Escort, while Deep Space feels more like a t2 or 3 crusier. (not a brick like t4/5 crusiers, but certianly not an escort by any means)
OK, this is more of what I was looking for. The crew/console differences are fairly straightforward, just like in all three classes. I just couldn't see how it made any sense to have one with clear advantages over the other in crew, speed, and maneuverability, with nothing to offset it.

So if the stats are misleading, and it's actually the Recon that's more maneuverable and the DSSV is more cruiser-like, now it makes sense.

And it means I'll probably want the Recon when I get to Admiral after all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-01-2010, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yargnit View Post
The Recon does in fact turn much better in game. ATM it isn't exactly clear how the inertia and tun rate interact with each other (or if turn rate is even a real stat anymore) As the game is currently you're best bet for comparing manuverability is to look at the inertia stat exclusively until we can figure out if turn rate really exists and what it currently is.

Recon turns almost as well as the t3 (Akria style) Escort, while Deep Space feels more like a t2 or 3 crusier. (not a brick like t4/5 crusiers, but certianly not an escort by any means)

Hey good to know! Makes me rethink that I might want to try the recon...Do you have a personal feeling for how those two turn compared to the T5 cruisers and escorts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-01-2010, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
That Chart is in no way accurate, if you want the real stats look at them in the game in the earth spacedock, where you can see them in the room above the place where you customize your ship.
LMAO... actually the big problem that is confusing people is that the info in the shipyard room is wrong, in some cases very wrong. This is actually where the myth about Recon Sci being useless came from. Those info-cards have not been updates since mid closed beta, and there have been many changes since then.

Suricata has actually spoken to the devs about those displays through the process of trying to insure the accuracy of his chart, and the word directly from the devs was that they will be updated when they are fairly confident the stats are final, so the don't have to change them again later.

All of Suri's info has come from actually flying the ships himself and reading the direct stats off the ship, or screen shots from others, including myself, who actually flew them out to look at the stats. I assure you, they are accurate as it currently stands. (Turn Rate and Impulse Modifier are not shown anywhere on the ships stats, so he has those listed based off the info-cards simply due to lack of another source, thus explaining why the turn rate of the Recon and DS sci's still makes the DS appear more maneuverable, there is simply no published info to correct these ATM)

Edit, responding to sresk. What I stated about comparing Recon to t3 (Akria type) Escort, and Deep Space to t2/3 (Excalibur or Stargazer) is about as close as I can give you. Basically Recon feels like an Escort with some weight put on, while Deep Space feels like a lighter Crusier. (with max points in Deep Space, and no points in Recon, there was still a significant advantage in turn rate on the Recon)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-02-2010, 09:01 AM
Yargnit, thanks for clearing up several things in you last post. I knew I like suricata's chart I didn't realize how much work had been put into it.

I guess what I was really asking was how each of the tier 5 ships compare to other ships in t5. I only made it up to t3 in OB so actually your comparisons are quite helpful as I know what each of those ships feels like. But from a PVP stand point do the t5 escorts fly circles around either or both of the t5 science? Did you ever have much difficulty lining up front mounted weapons. Did you feel the need to run arrays vs dual beam?

I'll probably end up flying both of them before I settle on one but I'm interested to hear from someone that has experience as there are not many that made it to t5 that will post without l33t speak, so I'd be interested to hear if you had any PvP experience with either of the t5 science.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-02-2010, 09:18 AM
Other than the items already mentioned, the other thing I noticed is the Recon give you a Tactical Boff station in place of the Engineering one in the Deep space one. It might be an option appealing to some players, based on their play style.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
02-02-2010, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
Other than the items already mentioned, the other thing I noticed is the Recon give you a Tactical Boff station in place of the Engineering one in the Deep space one. It might be an option appealing to some players, based on their play style.
This is the main reason it appeals to me in fact. I'm Science/Science when I play with my friends, but when I want to solo or do fleet actions, I use an escort. Because Escorts use two tactical officers, this lets me utlize both of my tactical officers in a science ship. On a side note, I'll be using a advanced escort class to take advantage of the extra science slot it has. Gives me great synergy between the two classes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-02-2010, 09:59 AM
ok, so are we saying here then that if i want a T5 science vessel, i HAVE to lose a tac BO slot and gain an engineering BO slot?

are there no other options? or are there more choices at T5 and not just basically 1 ship per category with 3 different skins?


I would like to keep my second tac BO but, you know, in a ship comensurate with my level and not a ship i got over 10 levels ago...


or have i been smelling too much dylithium again and i missed something???
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-02-2010, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaaWaa View Post
ok, so are we saying here then that if i want a T5 science vessel, i HAVE to lose a tac BO slot and gain an engineering BO slot?

are there no other options? or are there more choices at T5 and not just basically 1 ship per category with 3 different skins?


I would like to keep my second tac BO but, you know, in a ship comensurate with my level and not a ship i got over 10 levels ago...


or have i been smelling too much dylithium again and i missed something???
At T5 there are TWO ship types to pick from for each class, each with a slight leaning one way or the other towards the other two classes in terms of the little ensign station on the bridge. As an example, in the Science ships, the Recon ship has two Tactical stations and one Eng, whereas the Deepspace ship has Two Engineer stations and one Tactical. The stations are identical between the two, except the little ensign station that is either Tac or Eng depending on which ship you chose.

The same holds true for the other ship classes, but the career differences for that ensign station are always the two other classes separate from the ship's main class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-02-2010, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaaWaa View Post
ok, so are we saying here then that if i want a T5 science vessel, i HAVE to lose a tac BO slot and gain an engineering BO slot?

are there no other options? or are there more choices at T5 and not just basically 1 ship per category with 3 different skins?


I would like to keep my second tac BO but, you know, in a ship comensurate with my level and not a ship i got over 10 levels ago...


or have i been smelling too much dylithium again and i missed something???
Tier 5 ships have two different bridge officer layouts you can choose from. For Science ships, this means you can choose to have either 2 tactical bridge officers, 2 science officers, and 1 engineer OR you can have 2 engineering officers, 2 science officers, and 1 tactical. There are 2 ship configs available at tier 5; you get to choose your free vessel from either layout (which means there are 6 different skins, 3 per layout version). Hope this clears it up for you a bit

Edit: NecroBones beat me to it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-02-2010, 10:28 AM
Please keep in mind that Science ships were nerfed in mid-to late beta. What might appear on earlier information charts may not be accurate. If you want to know how they work I suggest you test them yourselves or wait for the power leveling researchers to do it. I played a T3 Science Vessel in beta before they berfed it (the flying Door Knob) and after they did it I felt like it was a gimped Cruiser. Maybe it's changed ... maybe not. The point is that this early in the game changes are going to be made a lot. Mostly for balance ... so whatever you're planning don't set it in stone. Things WILL change ... so it's best to become fluid. Besides ... the ship you're flying doesn't seem to matter as much as most think it does ...
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