Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
02-01-2010, 03:11 PM
I, too, was a bit disappointed with how much they nerfed the mission. This made it a bit more unenjoyable considering that I felt as though I had actually accomplished something during Closed and Open Beta by completing this. Yes, it took time-- but in the end, I felt as though it was fine like it was.

The only thing I would have done-- from a nerfing standpoint-- would have been to decrease the gas clouds from spawning right next to you (or at least outside of 4 K from your ship). The fact that I was able to ignite a cloud and help to destroy an enemy contact was actually useful. Now I can fire a few quantum torpedos and several phaser shots into it before it blows.

It was much better pre-nerf. If someone doesn't want to put in the time and effort to complete the mission, let 'em skip it. I want a game that is challenging as well as fun.

Just my 2 energy points worth...

--Joey
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
02-01-2010, 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadama View Post
I can't believe people would actually fly head first into the gas anyhow.
Well, that is the intent, I believe. Flying around in there, risking the boom. That it could be avoided super easily, a design bug. The turrets really should have clouds up to at least 10k away in all directions.

I think the new damage is good. Means it isn't insta-gib.

I do not care for how much damage it now takes to set off a cloud though. Believe that should go back to how it was...the slightest thing, boom! Or if not that, very close to that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
02-01-2010, 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativePhobia
Clouds don't respawn if you don't destroy them in the first place.
There are several problems with that.
  • They never you tell you the clouds respawn after death.
  • They never you tell you the clouds respawn in their same location.
  • Where do the clouds come from after death?
  • They never tell you firing through the clouds, without targeting them, sets them off.

Quote:
Drifting would be nice, but would take more coding than they're probably willing to put into the mission right now. Best you can hope for with the current engine is probably "patroling" clouds, and that would look just silly.
It really would look silly, but it's an ambiance thing, so I don't really care about seeing drifting clouds.

Quote:
Besides, clouds respawn because you're in an entire gas nebula. Realisticly, if you set one off, it could cause a chain reaction that could work through the entire nebula and destroy you in one hit. Instead, they chose to presume that these are just isolated "pockets" that vary in concentration. You're not going to be able to destroy a whole gas nebula with just your energy weapons. And that's the very reason you're not supposed to target the clouds in the first place, but to avoid them.
Since setting one off should set them all off, especially since they do area damage and anything sets them off, there needs to be pockets of metreon gas with ample spacing. It's why I proposed in a previous thread that they make it more like Insurrection, where you can pick up metreon gas and dump it as a weapon. It would work a bit like Dump Warp Core Plasma, but instead of continuous damage, it explodes after it's all dumped, but with damage only inside its visible boundaries. It's all more fitting in that in Insurrection, the entire nebula was not metreon gas, only a small pocket of it was. Otherwise, the fight would have eventually set the entire cloud off around them. It's like Cryptic didn't watch the movie.

This would make the place a really cool weapon harvesting site, since you could go there, pick up gas and use it in fights. There would even be a market for it because you would only be able to carry one load of the stuff at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zadama View Post
Some of you guys do realise you don't have to actually fly through the gas to destroy the turrets, don't you? Even in CB, you could just fly above the entire area and take out the turrets from above. And, you still can - I did it not three hours ago.

I can't believe people would actually fly head first into the gas anyhow.
That's how I ended up doing the mission the next day I tried it. I can't remember if they tell you to just fly over the clouds or not. The trouble with that is, if the intro does tell you that, most people aren't going to know, because the majority of text in this game is absolutely pointless, or boring, or disapointing. It's only the very rare missions, such as City on the Edge of Never, that has a good script. I mostly refuse to call them Episodes, because the majority are just run of the mill MMO missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
02-01-2010, 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorD View Post
There are several problems with that.
  • They never you tell you the clouds respawn after death.
  • They never you tell you the clouds respawn in their same location.
  • Where do the clouds come from after death?
  • They never tell you firing through the clouds, without targeting them, sets them off.
Not to nitpick, but this seems more like unnecessary hand-holding to me. They never tell us that Klingon Bird of Preys come in packs of three, either. But after the first group you engage, you've learned your lesson and can apply it to further engagements.

Do they give us a reason why BoPs come in Trios? Doesn't really seem to be a need to explain it after you understand that they do. Extra documentation in the form of a Journal or a Codex with entries (a la Warhammer Online, <insert name of bioware game here>, etc) would be nice, but that's an entirely different topic.

Please understand that I died a lot in cbeta trying to attempt this on my first go too. I don't claim to be some awesome player who doesn't need a bit of trial and error to get through any situation. But after my initial encounter, I can tell you that I learned from my mistakes. Providing missions that are so ridiculously easy where no one even needs to make several attempts is about as engaging as looking through a kaleidoscope can be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
02-02-2010, 01:25 AM
The first time i did this mission in Beta, i died once. After the respawn surrived a blow with smting arround 10-20% hull.

Well after that, i NEVER died again. Even when i did it again during beta. And why? Because you can easily pass the nebula above or on the side (right side in the beginning)

They even made a passage through the nebula half way through so you can go to the left side of it.

How the mission is these days is a joke. You cant even blow up enemies which are waiting in a clowd.... That was one of the best parts in this missions.

If this "balancing" continues, we will be playing Hello-Kitty online in a few month........
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16 Lol
02-02-2010, 03:27 AM
I did it in beta and they diid. One shoted it after beta. you just do not know what your doing. I am sick of little kids that want it easy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
02-02-2010, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceilican View Post
Ok, so why the nerf of Briar Patch?

Were the whining complainers that many, and that unable to do the mission and not die a few dozen times?

The mission was fun as was. Where you had to becareful and plot your way through the mission.

Devs do you guys really want us not to have to think our way through missions?

That is what FPS are for.

Give us whom like missions that have some intellectual/tactical/strategic value something worth playing this game for.

Yes I am asking the devs to challenge us.

Frankly Briar Patch is a joke now and just a time sink.
Before the nerf it was a welcome challenge and fun because you had to be careful.

Though it seems the simply minded and impatient are ruining this as many other games.

Seems to me like we are getting less intelligent each day.

I played it pre-patch. I remember that mission with the metreon gas and the klingon turrets and ship battle near the big chunky doughnut looking asteroid.

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but, as soon as you begin the mission, if you just navigate up about 10km above the closest gas cloud, you can just dive back down into the briar patch when you see enemy signals.

Then get only just into range and full stop, then fire away.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

It was not a tough mission to begin with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
02-02-2010, 08:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denare View Post
I played it pre-patch. I remember that mission with the metreon gas and the klingon turrets and ship battle near the big chunky doughnut looking asteroid.

I don't know if you guys know this or not, but, as soon as you begin the mission, if you just navigate up about 10km above the closest gas cloud, you can just dive back down into the briar patch when you see enemy signals.

Then get only just into range and full stop, then fire away.
Wash, rinse, repeat.

It was not a tough mission to begin with.
Absolutely correct. The gas clouds only spawn in one area of the map. You do NOT have to fly close enough to them to get blown up, to reach or attack the objectives. Did not need a nerf.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-02-2010, 08:18 AM
They are only giving the player base want they want. Carebear space game! Yes this game is extremely dummied down now. Hell I don't even care about playing now since it only takes 4 days to Admiral and it will only get easy once people learn the short cuts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
02-02-2010, 03:30 PM
PLease put The Briar Patch back the way it was. It wasn't a walkthrough, but I usually only died once or twice to the gas. It needed to be a bit tough, that's how metreon gas is, if Voyager could blast it all day long the show (bad as it was) wouldn't have existed.
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