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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
02-02-2010, 02:47 AM
I've started just using me and one other BO, i tell the rest to stay behind. At least that way it's slightly more even.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
02-02-2010, 02:57 AM
Well, for the record, the enemies aren't always totally useless, even now. There are still a few groups out there that can hand the unprepared their asses.

Problem #1, though, this was a "generic custom" race, not a hard canon race. I did in fact AFK my way to victory, to test out some claims Mark made earlier (hi Mark). These guys, however, had shield restore, sniper weapons AND deployable turrets, which made them an actual threat when a spawn had two lieutenants and a commander in it, along with four ensigns. I did in fact AFK my way to victory against Orions and Gorn (these were exploration missions for the record, so the enemies were even-con to my gang and they were generally a little harder than what you find in early episode missions) so canon races being easier than random generics feels... strange.

Problem #2 is where I think the real "AFK your way to victory" issue lies: the lack of damage spikes. The generics were able to finish my party off because they had lots of guys with damage spikes that could actually threaten me. The Orions and Gorn didn't have that burst, and thus weren't a threat... which allowed my BO with the Medical Tricorder to cover everyone as it comes off of cooldown (and in the above screenshot, on Paryun my doc only has like two or three ranks in MT1).

This stems from the general buff to HP that everything on the ground recieved in week two of the beta. The HP buffers got much, MUCH bigger, allowing for a much larger margin of error. This was a huge benefit to the game, actually... as it made ground PvP much more enjoyable, as it gave people time to react to ambushes and the like. The only knackered things with ground PvP at this point are the team DM kill goals and the spawn points; the across-the-board HP buff helped enjoyment on that front to a degree that cannot be overemphasized.

However, that HP buff has also thrown PvE balance completely out of whack. Enemies that were once major threats can now be healed through trivially, as their damage wasn't increased to match the increased HP. This is what's leading to AFKing, as frankly the unguided AI is kind of atrocious at picking priority targets (this applies to the enemies, too; I'm surprised they didn't beeline for my doc much at all). The only thing allowing anyone's NPCs to be AFK-soloing-bots is the fact that the HP buffers they have now allow for an incredible amount of healing spam.

There are a couple of ways to deal with this:

-Generalized damage increase for enemy NPCs. Probably the best way to handle things; increase base damage from NPCs by, I don't know, 50%? Not high enough to make it absolutely absurd, but high enough to once again threaten someone even if they've got most of a group on them, even when being spammed with Medical Tricorder.

-Bring HP back down. This is the one I don't like for the reasons I stated above; the generalized HP buff in beta had very beneficial effects to the game's competitive side that I'd like to preserve. It is an option, though.

-Give more enemies more burst in general. This is another one I'd like to see. Very, very few enemies I've encountered seem to have anything really like "burst" damage; part of the reason for the above screenshot was the outright surprise at encountering three enemies with sniper shot or an equivalent. I'd really like to see more enemies in general pick up sniper shot-capable weapons or other "exploit" weapons; half the reason things are easy right now is that the damage is so slow and steady, and there's no risk of using that Medical Tricorder and then all of a sudden OH CRAP SOANDSO NEEDS THAT MT RIGHT NOW BUT IT'S ON COOLDOWN OH GOD... more burst damage would help the game, I think.

I still remain a little skeptical that this is a problem at the higher levels (and I intend to test it out for myself), but after being pretty dismissive I'll admit there's a bigger problem here than I originally realized and it should probably be addressed as soon as possible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
02-02-2010, 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azma
I agree, the difficulty needs to be ramped up, greatly. Im still hoping Cryptic will come to their senses and put it back at the pre-open level.
the problem here is the diversity of skill point investment. those who spend their points in groundcombot are bored by it - those who donīt because they preferr space combat can have problems even with the early missions especially when still running around in starter gear because of only dropping food to keep a planaet of tribbles healthy
did the quest shown in that vid yesterday tried it the same way... my away team died against the klingons in room 1...

so balancing in this game with its billion skill options is quite hard.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
02-02-2010, 03:11 AM
What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers.

When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive.

I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
02-02-2010, 03:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfax View Post
What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers.

When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive.

I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p
Way to miss the point, I've solo'd quite a few missions these past few days and doing them solo i've not died one single time now that's not trying to sound " ELITE " as some would put it but there is a problem here a big one and it doesn't just end with ground combat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
02-02-2010, 03:51 AM
What I notice with these threads is a lot of people ask for it to be "harder" without really specifying what that means. Do you want more NPCs attacking you? For them to hit you a lot harder (essentially give them better weapons that you have available at that level)? For them to use more special attacks? For them to be more coordinated and focus fire attack?

I too think that video was stacked a bit with quite well armed away team members. Its also true that NPCs have aggro tables and will not attack you if you aren't doing anything. If you participate it seems that NPCs always prefer attacking you when you are hitting them (possibly a higher aggro from player controlled characters?) This places your own character at risk and requires you to coordinate your away teams efforts better.

In my view the best way to improve ground combat is to first make the pathing better (my BO's can't find their way around a bulkhead to save their lives) then make fights faster by increasing weapon damage a little and reducing base shield mitigation. This would probably make it a little "harder" but mostly I just feel that a phaser fight shouldn't last so long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
02-02-2010, 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scifiguy View Post
What I notice with these threads is a lot of people ask for it to be "harder" without really specifying what that means. Do you want more NPCs attacking you? For them to hit you a lot harder (essentially give them better weapons that you have available at that level)? For them to use more special attacks? For them to be more coordinated and focus fire attack?

I too think that video was stacked a bit with quite well armed away team members. Its also true that NPCs have aggro tables and will not attack you if you aren't doing anything. If you participate it seems that NPCs always prefer attacking you when you are hitting them (possibly a higher aggro from player controlled characters?) This places your own character at risk and requires you to coordinate your away teams efforts better.

In my view the best way to improve ground combat is to first make the pathing better (my BO's can't find their way around a bulkhead to save their lives) then make fights faster by increasing weapon damage a little and reducing base shield mitigation. This would probably make it a little "harder" but mostly I just feel that a phaser fight shouldn't last so long.
I've specified plenty of times on other subjects but on this one it's simple

Make the fights shorter, More damage less life. I don't want the away team to get worse but I think being able to take 13 hits from a sword master is too much.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
02-02-2010, 04:08 AM
for my part i dont want it to be harder, i just whish that my away team doesnt get stuck in stairways or someplace else and is right next to me so that i dont have to wait endless for them to finish theit cuppa tea:-)

The other day my tactical officer got stuck in a ditch on some planet. While we were fighting of the mean Klingons, she was trying to get out of there. Was funny to see her running up the stairs and then going back to her previous spot...

If u are used to play that other huge mmo (cant remeber the name though) aggro management in this one is a bit tricky. I constantly had the problem that even if i waited couple of seconds before phasering a Blademaster, the moment i slowly open fire, he routs directly towards me...But me thinks that after a while they will resolve some of these issues, because apparently Rome wasnt build in a day either :-)
Have fun
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
02-02-2010, 04:10 AM
Some of the ground combat is a bit easy. And since you can always just respawn and keep picking away, you will eventually win no matter what. Perhaps a timer or something to put some level of pressure on the player. Right now, there really is no bad side to death other than a time sink. I can't believe I would ever argue that the death penalty in a game felt too light.. but there it is.. Not only is it too light, but any mission can be done with enough time and patience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
02-02-2010, 04:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfax View Post
What the OP did, I hope everyone noticed, was let his BOffs draw all the agro away from him and, since he stood there doing nothing while his 4 BOffs killed 3 Klingons, he was untouched. It was also one of the first easy missions you get at Lt level and, sorry OP, but those BOffs had what look like Mk2 phaser rifles and disruptors not the standard mk0 hand phasers.

When I fight, I draw agro. I do this by setting up defences and shooting the biggest, nastiest beggars in the mob. This makes killing things difficult as I get upwards of 7 or so Klingons trying to kill me, and me specifically. I end up on my backside a lot as two officers and a Blademaster charge me with bat'leths and/or twin pistols while their friends snipe at me from a distance. This allows my BOffs/Team-mates to fight unmolested. That and the turrets/shields I set up beforehand keep me alive.

I think, if you want the game to be easy, be like the OP and cower. Your BOffs are deliberately over-powered so that four of them in an Away Team can take on 60+ enemies, so you can hide behind them should you wish. I'm not that kind of Captain. :p
they are mark 1 weapons you get from doing the diplomatic orders missions... also ive spent nothing on my away team skills as i think its wasted points at the moment... finaly ill be lt commander today and i will post a video doing the samething at lt commander and anywya my point is i didnt need to do anything as it plays out itself, with or without my help...

prpatch i never would of doen this as my away team would just die, ia lready stated i happily did this on romulan missions later on in the game, but obviously with the charater reset takes time to get there again and doesn't make my point any less valid...
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