Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
02-03-2010, 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedisp View Post
Think about your statement for a second. Are you really going to tell me if you compared the average Klingon and the average Fed that they would have EQUAL PvP experience? Are you really going to say that?
First of all, he said 'in general'. And I'll admit that the game is geared that PvPers will tend to be more oriented towards the Klingon side of the game since they are almost exclusively PvP; however, the day before launch? Everyone has about equal experience... so his point really doesn't matter.

Before you spill off about previous PvP experience, let me spout of mine. Pre-CU SWG RANGED bounty hunter with a 75% success rate against Jedi (who could block 65% of my attacks right off the top and my armor did NOTHING against their light sabers). I had a PvP ranking in Guild Wars over 2000 which was good enough to get me considered by ladder guilds at the time I was playing. In Warhammer Online, I had experience with most of the classes... and I even did fairly well with the gimped White Lion class.

Arenas didn't exist when I played WoW, so I can't speak on that... other than to say I leveled an orc hunter on Bleeding Hollow pre-Battlegrounds when Alliance had a 2.5 to 1 population advantage and a guild known as 'The Enclave' took great pleasure in sending out gank parties. I leveled while hiding from said gank parties. I also had a level 60 rogue which I got bored of after I started taking out the 'feared' orc (stun resistant) hunters with ease.

I'd say my previous PvP experiences speak for themselves in terms of judging what's fair and what's not.

Here's my other reason for calling his stuff BS. In ground PvP events, most of the fights are VERY close and I'd say I'm about 50/50 on ground based PvP. In space PvP, I'd say I'm winning maybe 1/5 of the battles. MAYBE.

The big difference between the two versions: equality in equipment and abilities. Any ability Klingons can use while cloaked in the ground game, so can the Federation. On the other hand, the Federation can't open with BOff 'attacks' like Tyken's Rift while cloaked. Well, I suppose my science ship could except we can't find the klingons to open the attack with it like they can since most of our ships cannot cloak... and MES isn't as nice as cloak. Not by a long shot.

Tyken's Rift does damage and drains energy; yet, it can be used while still cloaked. If a BOff's ability does ANYTHING to another ship, you should be REQUIRED to be decloaked to use it. If you want to activate High Yield Torps, Aux power to weapons and all of that while under cloak... FINE. Just no offensive abilities.

EDIT: I'm also going to tell everyone that time limits is NOT going to fix the problem. It will make it worse. The Klingons will alpha strike one ship and destroy it; then use evasive maneuvers and cut contact. They will then go cloak and 'win' the match 1 to 0... if anything time limits will make the sitation worse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
02-03-2010, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge_Bloodgood View Post
So I am making this post as I sit in what is now a 20 minute long PvP match. Here is a link to a thread and screen shot of the chat. http://gamesnafu.com/smf/index.php?topic=967.0 (right click and view for larger pic)They are just staying cloaked and refusing to fight.

WE NEED TIME LIMITS ON PVP MATCHES CRYPTIC!!!!
well i actually strianed to trye to read the text. Not sure where you got they were griffing in the first place let alone that they said they were. I say alot of QQ from the FED Ball that the klingons were takign their tiem to line up and launch their attacks so they could try to win the battle instead of doing a LEE ROY JENKINS into the FED ball.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
02-03-2010, 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by effreem View Post
I hate that. I play Kling and the one thing that annoys the **** out of me is when 5 klings are looking at 3-6 feds and dont attack. So I attack thinking they will join in but they dont. So i EM+EB to try and pull the feds apart but the klings dont jump in. Then I die. And NOW the stupid klings uncloak and attack 5 different targets (normally all cruisers).

WTB Kling t2 pvp group with half a brain.

P.S. I am the "get it over with" type for matches with only me vs 10 feds. If the match isnt going to happen...why slow it down and waste my time.
that is true but then people that want to rush in and not work with the team to win just so they can get thier points fast are just as bad as those who just fly around never attacking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
02-03-2010, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by effreem View Post
I hate that. I play Kling and the one thing that annoys the **** out of me is when 5 klings are looking at 3-6 feds and dont attack. So I attack thinking they will join in but they dont. So i EM+EB to try and pull the feds apart but the klings dont jump in. Then I die. And NOW the stupid klings uncloak and attack 5 different targets (normally all cruisers).

WTB Kling t2 pvp group with half a brain.

P.S. I am the "get it over with" type for matches with only me vs 10 feds. If the match isnt going to happen...why slow it down and waste my time.
that si tru but then people that want to rush in and not work with the team to win just so they can get thier points fast are just as bad as those who just fly around never attacking.
Um because if you do it right you can be winning when the rest of the team shows up later...

In open beta I entered a game and it was me v 5 feds....when I first saw another klingon 5-6minutes into the match I was ahead 5-1 ...

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
02-03-2010, 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madjik View Post
I've never been one to PVP. Don't like it, so you can either ignore me or explain it to me when I say this:

But i was under the impression that science ships had the ability to detect cloaked ships. Is this something that only appears in later tiers, is broken, or what? Because if there isn't anything wrong with science, the answer to this whole problem would seem pretty appearent.

What information am I missing here?
you are not missing any information. The Feds do have the ability to see cloaked ship in teir two and higher. They do not in tier 1 which is why the Devs removed battle cloak from the T1 Bop. The problem lies in there are limited sci types aroudn on the Fed side. While at the same time they want ti sit in a tight little ball and wait to be attacked. This is no different than the argument they made in closed beta when they tried to get cloaks totaly nerfed ( they were nerfed to uslessness then were fixed to the reduce ability you see now) when told the way to defeat Bops who were battle cloaking was to fire torps at them they screamed why should they have to equip torps to fight Bops if they did not want to. I kid you not that was their arugment. The game had a method to kill the bop but the FEDs did not want ot use it "just because". It was like seeign little kids in the sand box.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
02-03-2010, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
If you are both so much of experts about fed tactics, complaing about the famous "fedball"...tell me, wich other tactic feds can use in a deathmatch..

Here is the root of problem, you blame FEDs for using, the ONLY tactic available in DM scenario. Its either that, or flying around solo like fools, and die 5vs1 until the end. You should blame the setup, not the FEds, but its alot easier to insult and belittle the opposite side, instead actualy THINKING for once-

If you truly care about the "fedball" so much, than quit the whining about it, and propose a change to overall pvp scenarios, so there are other tactics.

But im sure, the local pvp expert bloodlance will enlighten me, and will now write at LEAST ONE other viable tactic the feds can use, and yes i want a straight answer, not insults comming back. Because if he cannot, how can he whine about the only one left ?
see this is the problem with FEDs. you like the ball tactic thats great it works for some of you. Then you whinne about the klingon counter to it. When you get into the higher tiers where klingons have cruiser and sci ships the tactics on both sides change. Move into Tier 5 and see how long a FED ball lasts. I woudl point out no Klingon here in this thread whinned about the FED Ball. WE just have pointed out that if you use it at the lowever lvls then do not whinne when we use an ambush style tactic to defeat it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
02-03-2010, 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
you are not missing any information. The Feds do have the ability to see cloaked ship in teir two and higher. They do not in tier 1 which is why the Devs removed battle cloak from the T1 Bop. The problem lies in there are limited sci types aroudn on the Fed side. While at the same time they want ti sit in a tight little ball and wait to be attacked. This is no different than the argument they made in closed beta when they tried to get cloaks totaly nerfed ( they were nerfed to uslessness then were fixed to the reduce ability you see now) when told the way to defeat Bops who were battle cloaking was to fire torps at them they screamed why should they have to equip torps to fight Bops if they did not want to. I kid you not that was their arugment. The game had a method to kill the bop but the FEDs did not want ot use it "just because". It was like seeign little kids in the sand box.
Hey, thanks for the explanation.

SO if that is the case then it seems to me that my people need to learn to work together a bit better and start using ships that can help them find you instead of complaining about you cloaking.

If you can't learn to adapt you shouldn't be PvP'ing.

Which is incidently why I don't enjoy PvP, I don't adapt fast enough
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
02-03-2010, 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
see this is the problem with FEDs. you like the ball tactic thats great it works for some of you. Then you whinne about the klingon counter to it. When you get into the higher tiers where klingons have cruiser and sci ships the tactics on both sides change. Move into Tier 5 and see how long a FED ball lasts. I woudl point out no Klingon here in this thread whinned about the FED Ball. WE just have pointed out that if you use it at the lowever lvls then do not whinne when we use an ambush style tactic to defeat it.
Improve your reading skills, nowhere i did say i like the tactic. I said, there is no other tactic available. Stop putting words in my mouth. And i would show you dozen klingons around who QQ about fed ball.

But seems you are ANOTHER expert on tactics, so please tell me, what other fleet tactic should FEDs use instead stay close together ?

Its just L2P issue for klingons, there is plenty of AOE options (torpedo spread spam works great) and other, its not FEDs fault, 99,99% tact klingons spec for direct dmg aka HYT and Rapid fire, instead of AoE.

But again, please share with us your infinite wisdom and tell us WICH OTHER, fleet tactic should FeDs use...maybe you will come to conlussion, that there is really no other fleet tactic.

P.S. I pvp rarely now, there is not many people in T4 when i do play..and if there is, BOTH sides form their balls
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
02-03-2010, 02:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baaddare View Post
see this is the problem with FEDs. you like the ball tactic thats great it works for some of you. Then you whinne about the klingon counter to it. When you get into the higher tiers where klingons have cruiser and sci ships the tactics on both sides change. Move into Tier 5 and see how long a FED ball lasts. I woudl point out no Klingon here in this thread whinned about the FED Ball. WE just have pointed out that if you use it at the lowever lvls then do not whinne when we use an ambush style tactic to defeat it.
we dont LIKE the ball tactic, there just isnt anything else to do ... when you fly off in a group of 1 or 2 within a minute your gonna be in a 5v1/2 situation which you cannot win ...

the only reason the fedball exists is cause feds dont have any way to effectively counter cloak(and dont even start about mines, if your a klingon and you fly within range of a mine ... well ... maybe stick with crafting instead...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
02-03-2010, 03:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocharni View Post
we dont LIKE the ball tactic, there just isnt anything else to do ... when you fly off in a group of 1 or 2 within a minute your gonna be in a 5v1/2 situation which you cannot win ...

the only reason the fedball exists is cause feds dont have any way to effectively counter cloak(and dont even start about mines, if your a klingon and you fly within range of a mine ... well ... maybe stick with crafting instead...)
Wait, there's crafting in this game?
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