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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
02-02-2010, 01:23 PM
I have three words for everyone that hates cloak - Charged Particle Burst. Not only does it prevent battle cloaking for a short time, it does some nice AoE damage to all shield facing for up to 50 enemies within 5k. Since everyone that's running cannons, in both factions, needs to be within 5k to get the most damage you'll hit them all. My Fed character at Lt Cmdr 6 already has this BOff power as maxed as I can get until admiral (for the astrometrics training). At 115/100 aux in my science ship I'm doing 1076 (1179 with Science Team I buff) damage to all shield facings on all targets within range of the blast every 30 seconds. Plus it disables cloaking systems on all enemies within range for 17-18 seconds.

So with a min of 2 science ships for the Feds or 2 BoPs for the Klingons (in KvK for the anti-cloak part) and proper timing you'd be able to indefinitely stop anyone from engaging battle cloak as long as they're in range of the blast. Oh and since since ships also get subsystem targeting it'd fairly easy for any Fed in a Science ship to drop anyone's shields with this BOff power and innate ship power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
02-02-2010, 01:39 PM
WAH! WAH! I don't like Cloaking!

Try some tactics. Hmmm, KDF don't like Fed ball maybe we should kick fed players that fly in formations too long together.
No you say. Same moronic ideas just reversed. Play improve your skills and enjoy the game without whining
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
02-02-2010, 02:19 PM
1) lol at you calling it ""Defense Power setting" and thinking it reduces damage substantially. That alone just proves that you dont understand the mechanics of the game, or how it is played.

2) lol at you calling the fed ball "the most overpowered tactic". Again, this proves you know very little about gameplay. When klingons clump up and attack all together, is that the "klinky ball"? And in response to Klingons clumping up together, you expect feds to just wander around? Your logic fails.

3) Did I say I pvped in WOW? Re-read my post. I said other star trek games. If you think the combat in this game is not based off SFC/Bridge Commander/KA, you clearly have not played those games


I have more points.. but there's no point in mentioning them as you seem to not know what you're talking about. I have yet to hear anyone reject why my cannon based solution to cloaking is unreasonable.

Edit: I also find it funny that we are now "whiny" about cloaking being overpowered... when Klingon's were "whining" about MES a few weeks ago and that now got nerfed
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
02-02-2010, 03:11 PM
You know as much as I try to help folks, its people like you that might me wonder why i bother. Just pve until FvF gets here or roll a klingon if you think we've got a magically win button. If our ships are so amazing why arent you all playing klingons?

Spend a few days playing t2 FvK - take notice of what the feds are doing - see which ones are doing what your doing and how you do at killing them. Then play some more until you get to the good players and see what they're doing different to you, try and work out what skills and setups they're using thats rendering all your teams DPS to being nothing but a number on the score board.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
02-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washu.Chan.
The answer to klingon cloaking is simple.

Allow the federation to retrofit a cloaking device onto their ships.

In the same way that the USS-Defiant has one, But have the cloaking device take up one of the console slots such as science or engineering.

And make the cloaking device a rare device that is awarded at the end of a long quest chain to obtain one from somewhere.

With the Romuluan star empire in ruins there would be plenty of oppotunities for a federation captain to obtain a Romuluan cloaking device by a variety of ways, perhaps they can salvage one off a wreck and get it repaired or perhaps they could purchase one from a rogue Romulan scientist or engineer after a long quest to track one down, because with an empire in collapse there will be plenty of these around.

This would be the perfect counter, cloaking to balance cloaking.
Okay but if you recieve from a wreck make the repair cost something no one can afford. That way no can cloak because they can't afford it.
Lol jk.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
02-02-2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uss_Hood View Post
1) lol at you calling it ""Defense Power setting" and thinking it reduces damage substantially. That alone just proves that you dont understand the mechanics of the game, or how it is played.
Looks like you don't from this post. Try it in PvE even, and see how your survivability jumps up significantly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
02-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
Looks like you don't from this post. Try it in PvE even, and see how your survivability jumps up significantly.
Indeed it does, but it does not reduce damage, it increases recharge rate. That's a distinct difference, especially when you're getting chained in PvP
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
02-02-2010, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uss_Hood View Post
Indeed it does, but it does not reduce damage, it increases recharge rate. That's a distinct difference, especially when you're getting chained in PvP
Thus it reduces damage done to your hull, as they cannot get past your shields. If you tried it, you would see how it easily stops Klingon's attacks.

100 Shield power = Triple Recharge Rate
Source: http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpr...-power-levels/

Basically, a federation ship with its innate bonuses, plus right set-up can pretty much hold of 5 Klingon Birds of Preys for over a good minute (I even seen it happen myself). So trust me, "Defense Power Setting" makes a real significant difference and really dampens a Klingon's day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
02-02-2010, 04:26 PM
SO go build a ship with a high recharge rate, find the consoles that boost them, you'll soon have a recharge rate high enough to negate alot of that damge, - look into resists, its easy to get a very high resist in this game that make those 4k shields have a EHP that insane. Combine them, your resisting alot of damage and your shields are recharging nearly as fast as the damage is coming in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
02-02-2010, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
In PvP the team that turtles better wins, now Feds best tactic atm is to turtle in Cruiser class ships. EVEN IF Klingons would not have cloak, both teams would still be in a group setup = in a tight formation.
Yes, but as it is Klingons can organize said formation and feds cannot. Klingons have the ability to set up their teams and make a coordinated attack while feds (already being a hodgepodge of players) have no ability to make a formation and carry out any form of plan. The only plan feds have is "wait". Fighting Klingon is akin to fishing, patience is the only strength the Fed has, and most of them are not so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
Your argument is not valid that we abuse cloaking, as cloaking is intended aspect of the game.
Regardless of intention. Just because it was an intended part of the game doesn't mean it can or cannot be overpowered (those of you who were ****ing an moaning about MES, which is now completely uselss). I find it hypocritical you guys got mad about cloak, but think your cloak is fair. Sure, the thing didn't lower shields, but it was still cloak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
We dont argue that its a valid option to ball up, it would happen anyway, with or without cloak. The point on it is simple, please read the following lines very carefully and please understand them. (this is only T2)

T2 - 5 x Fed Cruisers vs Klingons (any ship combo) = automatic win for Feds. ( this formula is only valid if the feds have done missions and gotten normal mission rewards and done some SB24 etc crystal entity for blues ).

Its totally unbalanced for Fed favor, and its TOTALLY mind numbing to see those OP 5 cruisers in a lump with 50-75 mines in a ball formation.

Now lil more information, 1st alpha

1st Alpha is done by Fed team

Klingon decloaks and is instantly fired upon by every fed player (klingons cant shoot until cloak is off/ animation takes time). Thats not a big problem, BUT the problem is that the one Klingon that did decloak looses 100% of his frontal shield, and has to start tanking, turning, so he looses his frontal dps and thus its

5 fed cruisers vs 4 klingons

Now i am pretty sure that the game is developed 5 dps classes in mind on Klingon side, but the thruth is that we wont have 5 dps classes dpsins as one needs to roll his shield frontages and use every CD he has to survive against 5 fed cruisers +get help from friends.

So there is actually 2 things more that Feds have adventage in,

1. 1st Alpha is Federations (this needs addressing by Devs, the 1st Alpha should be Klingons)
2. The game has to be balanced in T2 as Klingons dont have cruisers yet, we need more dps or more survival in T2 as we only roll with 4 active dps vs 5 fed wide arc dpsers. (when Klingon tanks he is not shooting).

You could argue that the one Klingon who tanks could take wide arc beams, but be real, is Klingon side developed that in mind (our ships) ... nope its not.
This example is false, and misunderstands the basics of what roles are. The first ship to decloak is assumed to take the first alpha. Which is why all kling ships KNOW WHERE TO SEND BUFFS. With federation, we have to wait and see who gets alpha and therefore we usually cannot respond until their shields are gone and they are at half hull at which point buffing them is half as effective as it is for you guys. Again, planning and preparation is on the Klingon side in this way. You guys can react faster because you have the ability to control the conditions of combat while feds need to respond to everything making their reaction time far less.

Now while feds have higher firing arcs, their DPS is crap with energy weaponry that gives those arcs.The only way to take advantage of high arc weapons is with consoles that boost their DPS (such as the one in my cruiser which gives +15 to all phaser weaponry). So one phaser can do... well... MAYBE 130 DPS at Mark IV in tier two with said phaser console. So, at a maximum of three sustained on a cruiser, the max DPS you can get while broadsiding is 390 DPS. Yes, thats it. Not even double what a single heavy cannon can do without modification by such things. Throw down two heavy canons with said console for whatever they are, possibly two in an escort and you can easily triple the DPS. Sure feds can do the same but then we also lose the arc. So the advantage of firing arcs is really negligible unless you shields are down.

But, these bonuses are available to the other side as well. While they may only get max DPS forward that DPS is outstanding and with the large amount of turning they can do, even moving behind them doesn't stop the DPS for long (especially in a cruiser). The only real way to keep them from smacking you hard is to tractor them form the rear. But even with that they can pop evasive and a battery and still get away and cloak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
There is no suprise that Klingons will attack, if a fed says its a suprise he is totally vegetable.
It isn't a surprise that you attack. It isn't about not expecting an attack, but the reaction time difference between a true reaction and a planned one. Klingons have that on its side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedisp View Post
.....Okay obviously I MUST be misunderstanding what in the world you are trying to say. Since nearly every single MMO that has ever made a tiered PvP system has had the tiers exclusive. Hence why they call them....tiers But that would be stupid if you were asserting that so I will just assume you communicated your point poorly and await further explanation.
Name another space based MMO with restricted tier access. Levels do not equate to tiers mind you. If there is one, show me any of them that are as unbalanced as T1 is in this game. I doubt any MMO is as broken as T1 PvP is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
"element of surprise"?
  • We surprise you with an attack from the rear? You're in a ball, there is NO front/rear/left/right. Most federation vessels are using beams with 360 degree attacks, auto-aim and auto-fire anyway.
  • Yes, after you bait you smack someone from behind. Using superior maneuverability that is effective against everything save for escorts (but with your DPS an escort will pop in a fraction of the time it takes for him to roll shields or get into a firing line). And like I said above, beams may have a large firing arc, but they do not have similar DPS. A one on one fight between a cruiser with 4 beams and max weapons and an escort with full canon load out will reveal an obvious winner.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splutter
  • We surprise you with an attack from all sides? You're in a ball - someone is facing that direction. On top of that, we're now hitting every shield of our target - non optimal.
  • Never said that was a good tactic, we aren't talking about tactics here but tendencies. And with the amount of DPS a single BoP can deal in T2, and combining that with its speed and manueverability over all Fed ships in that tier, it can concentrate on one facing surprisingly easy while hardly moving - which IS what most klings do. Sit just outside of a fed ball and alpha strike a single ship, sometimes with one ship camping its tail and keeping it pumping shields in that direction so all other facing fall.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splutter
  • We surprise you with an attack from above/below? Yeah, that doesn't really work with cannons...
  • Yeah, that mechanic needs work in general IMO.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splutter
  • We surprise you with where we attack? You're in a ball, we need to be within 5km or we might as well attack you with bad language. You get to pick where we attack.
  • Yes, as in when, where, who and how many. If we get broken then who knows where we'll be smacked next. If it will be before we can regroup, or when we spawn even. Where isn't just about location on the map, though.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splutter
  • We surprise you with when we attack? You're in a ball now, you'll be in the same ball in 20 seconds time, and 20 seconds after that and ...
  • Again, the ball is a DIRECT result of the lack of control feds have over the battle via cloak.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Splutter
  • We surprise you with who we attack? We attack the escort as he'll kill us, AND we can actually kill him in a reasonable length of time.
Um... if there is more than one escort? Science ships? Even me, in a cruiser, have been picked as the object of Klingon affection. With that much DPS, it is only a matter of time before I fall. The only time I survived such an encounter is when another ship actually did its job and assisted me with buffs on top of my own. Yes, teamwork, but that didn't stop us from losing regardless. I may not die more than once in a match, but cruisers hardly get kills either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
You could argue that 'advanced tactics' should be used, but that is basically:
- hope the Federation players are complete idiots. (yay! a ship, lets leave the ball and take a look at it!)
- hope the Federation players are bored. (a ship, yawn, it's obviously a trap but it can't be more boring than this!)
- hope the Federation players have the reactions of a dead whale. (oh, wow - new Britney song on the tv - "lalalala" - oops, dead).
- some combination of the above.
Um... you honestly don't sound like a competent Klingon player. Cloaking gives you the ability to FORCE all those situations on someone. The longer a match drags on, the less inclined people are to sit there and take it. Which is, again, why cloaking gives YOU the advantage. I had to trash talk some teams into actually attacking us in several games just to get things started. You don't realize how annoying it is to sit there and wait for who knows how long. It could be three seconds, it could be an hour. We don't know it isn't up to us. Our only option to end the frustration is to quit. That, in it of itself, is an OP trait of the Klingon side. The instant grief button.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
On scrapyard cloaking is useful - on team-death-match, it's mostly used for getting to around 5km of your target before anyone opens fire (in T3 things change a bit).
Its used to regroup unseen as well. You'd be surprised how difficult regrouping without getting ganked is for Feds.
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