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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 101
02-02-2010, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesstair View Post
Since apparently some Klingons on this forum want cloak maintained with absolutely no changes, I would like to suggest a different change. Instead, I would request all Federation players get an "All power to shields" skill which makes them immobile and unable to attack, but they can never lose their shields, making them invincible. This way, bad Federation players have the opportunity to screw over a match they're losing until the opposing side throws it exactly the same as Klingons can do currently.
please stop blaming the cloak...blame the devs for poor objective design and the overly simplistic TDM...namely team death match arenas. Cloaks are tactical and strategic systems, but TDM is neither tactica(except in its simpliest terms)l or strategic.

You feel screwed because you are being pidegon hold into unrealistic combat scenerio...one where nothing matters and there is nothing to gain or lose.

If we had complex and in-depth RvR/objective based open warfare, the concept of the cloak would find its rightful place, there would be no assumed requirment for a fight to happen right here and right now.

The current gladiator matches creates an unrealistic expectation for the gladiator types to have a frag-fest of sorts. It ignores those of us who are there to utilize tactics, strategy and intelligent play...which only leads to frustration of the fragger. The fragger wants to bend, change and alter the systems that are the source of that frustration instead of recognizing that they are generally fine the way they are...its the gladiator style combat environment that is at fault. It was in fact war itself that was bent, changed and altered...and in that alteration is the source of your frustration.

If you didnt feel you had an "appointment"(queuing into an arena) for a frag-a-thon, you'd have no problems with us not engaging...in fact you'd never know we were there in the first place unless we wanted you to. If each fight was in a wide and expansive, open area of space, with many systems and objectives within and outside these systems(sector space) for control of an asset, territory, access, etc...then you'd careless if we ran away...because in a realistic scenerio of meaningful warfare...you'd be deemed the winner.

The cloak is fine...its the PvP system thats broken. Its short-sighted, overly simplistic, to confined, to gladiator-ish...its a "battle in a bottle". You cant balance the combat equation if you insist of eliminating key variables...every attempt to fix it will just require you break the parts of the equation you do have(cloak, various systems specials/skills, etc). Eliminating the purpose for combat was the worst ommission of key variables this PvP system has done...land it then makes the cloak stick out like a sore-thumb.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 102
02-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoa-jin View Post
please stop blaming the cloak...blame the devs for poor objective design and the overly simplistic TDM...namely team death match arenas. Cloaks are tactical and strategic systems, but TDM is neither tactica(except in its simpliest terms)l or strategic.

You feel screwed because you are being pidegon hold into unrealistic combat scenerio...one where nothing matters and there is nothing to gain or lose.

If we had complex and in-depth RvR/objective based open warfare, the concept of the cloak would find its rightful place, there would be no assumed requirment for a fight to happen right here and right now.

The current gladiator matches creates an unrealistic expectation for the gladiator types to have a frag-fest of sorts. It ignores those of us who are there to utilize tactics, strategy and intelligent play...which only leads to frustration of the fragger. The fragger wants to bend, change and alter the systems that are the source of that frustration instead of recognizing that they are generally fine the way they are...its the gladiator style combat environment that is at fault. It was in fact war itself that was bent, changed and altered...and in that alteration is the source of your frustration.

If you didnt feel you had an "appointment"(queuing into an arena) for a frag-a-thon, you'd have no problems with us not engaging...in fact you'd never know we were there in the first place unless we wanted you to. If each fight was in a wide and expansive, open area of space, with many systems and objectives within and outside these systems(sector space) for control of an asset, territory, access, etc...then you'd careless if we ran away...because in a realistic scenerio of meaningful warfare...you'd be deemed the winner.

The cloak is fine...its the PvP system thats broken. Its short-sighted, overly simplistic, to confined, to gladiator-ish...its a "battle in a bottle". You cant balance the combat equation if you insist of eliminating key variables...every attempt to fix it will just require you break the parts of the equation you do have(cloak, various systems specials/skills, etc). Eliminating the purpose for combat was the worst ommission of key variables this PvP system has done...land it then makes the cloak stick out like a sore-thumb.

As a klingon, I stay out of the kill count scenario and play salvage for the most part.

Straight death count is a terrible and LAZY PVP scenario.

Hopefully they'll change the PVP system so we can forget all these crazy posts about changing a basic ability like cloak.

There isn't much else you can do to it without risking nerfing it beyond use or buffing it to OP status.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 103
02-03-2010, 03:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
"Jam Sensors" makes the Klingon Ship unable to attack you for 9 seconds, or even see you. Which just ruins an attack run on you.

"Defense Power setting" makes the Klingon's attack run do minimum damage against you.

Since Klingon's rely on short and fast encounters, these ruin that, which allows you to easily get around to defeating the Klingon player. It isn't that hard to do.

Edit:
Actually, in a little fight right now, this happened and I got killed.

Federation science vessel, with defense power setting on. It just took two barriages of "Rapid Fire" and "High Yeild Torps", as it was obviously against me, I planned to escape when I got "Tractored Beamed" then his Fed Zerg buddies just fried me, as I was unable to act or do anything.

It is really that simple to defeat Klingon's, I do it myself and it even happens to me. If you think Cloak is overpowered, then you really do not know how to play in pvp.
L2P where were your friends? why did you decloak on your own.

I suggest your situation is hypothetical.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 104
02-03-2010, 03:59 AM
all i see in this thread is Solo Feds who dont get support from Fed Team.

Our premade has a healer who heals 50 000 - 75 000 in one game around (visible heal on endgame report) our tactic is risky but it works everytime. Also 4 of our players are capable of healing/repairing if needed (t2)

Federation Teams dont support enough of eachother, its a simple fact.

All this cry here from fed side originates from the simple fact that they play a Team vs Team map, but they actually just play solo game in a ball.

-

To my young Klingon brothers, join a PvP fleet, ask for advice and concentrate on team work only.

Team up, and do less PuGging, Pugs are ok most of the time, but the most enjoyment comes from team work in Klingon side. The outcome is Glorious !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 105
02-03-2010, 04:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
all i see in this thread is Solo Feds who dont get support from Fed Team.

Our premade has a healer who heals 50 000 - 75 000 in one game around (visible heal on endgame report) our tactic is risky but it works everytime. Also 4 of our players are capable of healing/repairing if needed (t2)

Federation Teams dont support enough of eachother, its a simple fact.

All this cry here from fed side originates from the simple fact that they play a Team vs Team map, but they actually just play solo game in a ball.

-

To my young Klingon brothers, join a PvP fleet, ask for advice and concentrate on team work only.

Team up, and do less PuGging, Pugs are ok most of the time, but the most enjoyment comes from team work in Klingon side. The outcome is Glorious !

Its amazing what you choose to see in a thread, Bloodlance.

Slaughtering casual Fed PvPers in PUGS is not glorious, its like beating up a 10 year old for his lunch money.

Until the populations and content are even on both sides, there will always be a percieved PvP imbalance by one side or the other.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 106
02-03-2010, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harathan
Its amazing what you choose to see in a thread, Bloodlance.

Slaughtering casual Fed PvPers in PUGS is not glorious, its like beating up a 10 year old for his lunch money.

Until the populations and content are even on both sides, there will always be a percieved PvP imbalance by one side or the other.
But i am special that way.

Plus what else there is to do as Klingon ? roll over and die ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 107
02-03-2010, 05:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodlance View Post
But i am special that way.

Plus what else there is to do as Klingon ? roll over and die ?
No. You guys PvP because you having nothing else do. You slaughter PuGs because there's nothing else to fight. Thats not your fault, blame isnt being directed at you for that. We know thats because Cryptic dropped the ball.

But because there is a huge disparity in skill level and numbers, many Fed players see a huge imbalance in PvP. You cant really blame them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 108
02-03-2010, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesstair View Post
Since apparently some Klingons on this forum want cloak maintained with absolutely no changes, I would like to suggest a different change. Instead, I would request all Federation players get an "All power to shields" skill which makes them immobile and unable to attack, but they can never lose their shields, making them invincible. This way, bad Federation players have the opportunity to screw over a match they're losing until the opposing side throws it exactly the same as Klingons can do currently.
Or.... the target of the uncloak and focus fire (aka the escort) can resign his butt to Jesus, but attempt to live long enough so that his team mates can get their act together and begin their own focus fire on a BoP and bag two maybe three in the 20-30 seconds during the cooldown. Saves on Dev program coding this way. Moderate to good Federation teams can do this, why cannot you? Leaving aside the facetiousness, there is nothing wrong with the cloak short of most PvP players loosing some pride and the belief that their particular actions are going to save the Federation single-handed. Where does it say that at the expense of the other players?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 109
02-03-2010, 05:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harathan
No. You guys PvP because you having nothing else do. You slaughter PuGs because there's nothing else to fight. Thats not your fault, blame isnt being directed at you for that. We know thats because Cryptic dropped the ball.

But because there is a huge disparity in skill level and numbers, many Fed players see a huge imbalance in PvP. You cant really blame them.
True i guess, its just that in betas we got nerfed and i am just maby overreacting here @ forums but i can smell a game breaking nerf incoming to Klingons as all the new newbs just QQ here all the time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 110
02-03-2010, 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
Regardless of intention. Just because it was an intended part of the game doesn't mean it can or cannot be overpowered (those of you who were ****ing an moaning about MES, which is now completely uselss). I find it hypocritical you guys got mad about cloak, but think your cloak is fair. Sure, the thing didn't lower shields, but it was still cloak.
Just wanted to reply to this from that holy dang parsed post you made. The complaints about MES were not, for the most part, based upon envy as we too had access to MES for it's use. What tended to bother us as players more was how it was being used as cloak when it had been stated that Feds would not have cloak. This is speaking from the fleet I am a member of and not in general.

Leaving aside the DEV statements that the Fed side would never have cloak, what was felt (at least in my fleet) was that if MES was to be kept in as a full cloak then we (generic we) wanted hull strengths to equal ALL tiers from the Fed side as well as ship types. We also wanted some function where PvE quest rewards in green and blues were awarded as drops in our only PvE type area and not the batteries that are the majority. You see, we understand the alpha strike, or at least those teams that play the klingons for the tactical role rather than 'playing' Klingons. We know exactly how devastating it is, but at present a damn good team is able to take out one definite target and begin work on a second only against a very disorganized Fed opponent. Any team organization of a moderate to good nature will net us only one with a responding loss to maybe two BoPs down to the good to really good teams depending on luck.

The BoP strength, which the majority of the players in the KDF fly, is all psychological. Yes, it is fast and can turn on a dime, but it is an eggshell with a cannon, even more so than the Fed tier 2 escort. An MES assisted alpha strike by Feds would rip through BoPs and it would not matter about the team organization of the KDF side which would loose two or three birds within the first 10 seconds. That is the point, to do to the KDF what is being perceived from the other side but still have the equipment bonus that the Feds enjoy so they can 'PWN them damn Klingons' and get their e-bragging rights with the t-shirt. It is PRIDE, not game mechanics or balance which is calling for the broken MES to be returned. Do not lump the QQ Klingons with those opposed to MES because of imbalance or assume that if they do oppose MES it is because of QQ.
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