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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-01-2010, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
This again is placing the blame on cloak, when it is the system that is leading to the abuse of cloak. If matches started with full teams at the same time, and required objectives other than kills to win cloak cannot be abused in this manner.
I guess I can see that, but on the same issue if the Klingon side wants to stop playing they can do that and force a stalemate. a couple reasons why I forsee FvF being popular is because a) it has balanced teams, b) no side can go completely dark when they start losing (unless they ALL have MES, which is a huge improbability) and c) both sides get the opprotunity to play the agressor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-01-2010, 07:46 PM
I have seen even matches where neither team left, and the Klingon team will stay cloaked for upwards of 30 minutes. It took me two hours to complete a match due to this. Fed members even quit until we were outnumbered 5v3 and still they never de-cloaked. It wasn't till after our numbers were replenished did some of them start attacking (a bit of trash talking got them to act rashly, too). There is a definite abuse of cloak in this game, which is what happens when one team has control over when and where fighting occurs. A match time limit, however, would fix this (although that could spawn a different kind of strategy where klings cloak until 60 seconds before match end and then pounce of the 1/0 win). Either way, the source of the problem is the cloak, nothing else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-01-2010, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
I guess I can see that, but on the same issue if the Klingon side wants to stop playing they can do that and force a stalemate. a couple reasons why I forsee FvF being popular is because a) it has balanced teams, b) no side can go completely dark when they start losing (unless they ALL have MES, which is a huge improbability) and c) both sides get the opprotunity to play the agressor.
Klinks would not be able to abuse cloak if more maps were based on objectives like the salvage map than the deathmatch maps. We cannot win by cloaking. In actually we cannot win in a Deathmatch by cloaking either, but we can drag it on indefinately, that is why it is the maps that need to change and not cloak.

As for FvF and balance. I don't see many Klingons playing KvK and that should be perfectly balanced. Regardless I hope Feds do play some FvF and then many of them will find it is not cloak that is causing them to loose against Klinks, cloak is a tool and like any other tool when used correctly it is very effective, currently the Feds I've encountered in KvF PvP do not understand the tools they have. They rush 4 BoP's with one or two players and that's with all five of us uncloaked. They don't change targets when I hit them with jam sensors. I've not seen a single debuff applied to me, and I've not seen them heal eachother at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-01-2010, 07:52 PM
^You would be surprised how much being able to see your enemy at all times changes the way the game plays. I have fought fed vs. fed due to a glitched out sensor confuse BOff power. It was completely different than fighting a kling. Less running away, alot more arc/shield management.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
I have seen even matches where neither team left, and the Klingon team will stay cloaked for upwards of 30 minutes. It took me two hours to complete a match due to this. Fed members even quit until we were outnumbered 5v3 and still they never de-cloaked. It wasn't till after our numbers were replenished did some of them start attacking (a bit of trash talking got them to act rashly, too). There is a definite abuse of cloak in this game, which is what happens when one team has control over when and where fighting occurs. A match time limit, however, would fix this (although that could spawn a different kind of strategy where klings cloak until 60 seconds before match end and then pounce of the 1/0 win). Either way, the source of the problem is the cloak, nothing else.
Let's say you are right and they did just wait and what your describing was not a snafu with the spawning system (I've seen it).

This again is not a reason to nerf cloak, but to change the maps. If the maps require any other action than kills you will be able to end the match against a team that sits there cloaked because they cannot achieve the objectives while cloaked.

Your adherence to "the source of the problem is cloak" is simply incorrect. The problem is that cloak can be used in such a manner because of the system. The problem is systemic not the tools. If the maps required objectives we wouldn't be having this problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-01-2010, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varrangian View Post
Klinks would not be able to abuse cloak if more maps were based on objectives like the salvage map than the deathmatch maps. We cannot win by cloaking. In actually we cannot win in a Deathmatch by cloaking either, but we can drag it on indefinately, that is why it is the maps that need to change and not cloak.

As for FvF and balance. I don't see many Klingons playing KvK and that should be perfectly balanced. Regardless I hope Feds do play some FvF and then many of them will find it is not cloak that is causing them to loose against Klinks, cloak is a tool and like any other tool when used correctly it is very effective, currently the Feds I've encountered in KvF PvP do not understand the tools they have. They rush 4 BoP's with one or two players and that's with all five of us uncloaked. They don't change targets when I hit them with jam sensors. I've not seen a single debuff applied to me, and I've not seen them heal eachother at all.
but indeed people will find fault with cloaking because it forces one side to play defensively, and after about 4-5 defensive encounters a person starts wanting to play the other side. I've experienced alot of what you said feds never do and I can assure you thats not the reason why most of them are ****ed off. It's because...
"that one side always ****ing ambushes us"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-01-2010, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
^You would be surprised how much being able to see your enemy at all times changes the way the game plays. I have fought fed vs. fed due to a glitched out sensor confuse BOff power. It was completely different than fighting a kling. Less running away, alot more arc/shield management.
Umm if you've got that glitch in your sensors you can see the Klink who fired it. You just have to manually target them. We can't attack while cloaked. We can't use BO powers while cloaked. The problems we are talking about are abuses of cloak, those do not occur in combat. There is a cool down on Battle cloak, I can't fire of jam sensors and then cloak right back into it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-01-2010, 07:57 PM
Perhaps cloak should require a minimum of 50-75 aux to engage. This would prevent engine battery + evasive into cloak spam. It is just too was for klings to run away, regen, return, runaway, regen, return.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-01-2010, 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
but indeed people will find fault with cloaking because it forces one side to play defensively, and after about 4-5 defensive encounters a person starts wanting to play the other side. I've experienced alot of what you said feds never do and I can assure you thats not the reason why most of them are ****ed off. It's because...
"that one side always ****ing ambushes us"
There are skills that decloak people, one of the ways to ambush the ambushers is to team up and use these skills. There is a short window when a klink is decloaked where they are caught defenseless, I've seen a number of klinks die in that window of time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
02-01-2010, 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emn1ty View Post
Perhaps cloak should require a minimum of 50-75 aux to engage. This would prevent engine battery + evasive into cloak spam. It is just too was for klings to run away, regen, return, runaway, regen, return.
just remove an inate cloak and make it a device, then rebalance Klink ships to compensate. problem solved, not that it will ever happen of course
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