Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
I love the threads that go like this: "As a Fed escort, I cannot solo or tank against 5 klinks who are playing as a team. This proves Klingon cloaking is broken."


I am one of those BoP pilots that loves to Battlecloak just to hear the screams of rage from the Fed players, and I have a few comments.


First: If you're a target of a Klink alpha strike, you won't survive without teammates healing you or unless you have a defensive ability like RSP or popping an evasive burst. I can flip that argument, and also point out if you're a single Klink in the middle of a Fedball that is focusing fire, you are equally dead just as quickly.

Second: This is a team game. You can't think of this as a solo game where your given ship class can beat every other ship class every time. Heals, buffs, debuffs...they're all important. In T2, the Feds have such a huge potential advantage in this that they could dominate the tier (like they did in beta) if they really wanted to. But doing this properly is my third point....

Third: This game is about skill. Very much about skill. Now it's true that as a BoP I usually consider Fed escorts to be a tasty snack...however I've flown against plenty of GOOD escort pilots who know how to fly their ships and who can tear me into pieces if I'm not careful. It's the same with cruisers and sci ships. It's very apparent to me which fed pilots know what they're doing, and which ones are spamming spacebar and not using effective BO abilities.

Fourth: Having Klinks run and cloak is what you want as a Fed. You want them forced out of combat...even temporarily...in order to focus down the remaining Klinks. If I get pushed off and battlecloak to escape, I'm now doing ZERO DPS for my team. The pursuing Feds won't get the kill against me, but they will immediately be able to push spacebar again and continue DPS against the remaining Klinks. If I turn around and engage again, the cooldown on battlecloak will leave me exposed (and very killable) for the next 20 seconds. And 20 seconds in a BoP is a lifetime. Forcing that Klink to run is a temporary mission kill...sure you don't get the epeen rush of an explosion...and sure it doesn't directly show up on the scoreboard...but you've neutralized that Klink. He's gone. He's not kllling anyone on your team. And he's left you to be able to more effectively focus fire on his teammates. He's just made it easier for you to do your job and get focus fire on the other ships. Remember...PvP is ultimately about effective dps and dps mitigation, and cloaked ships do zero dps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
02-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinks View Post
That. That right there is your mistake. You do not try and turn round. While you're waiting for the Klingons to decloak you have your engines at full power. As soon as that first enemy spot shows up on your sensors or that first sound of a cloaking device touches your ears you pound evasive like your life depends on it (it kind of does). You have a modicum of leeway if there's other escorts but if you're the only one you run.

At that point the initial alpha likely misses or if not does only medium damage. The Klingons suddenly find their target not only lived but is currently utterly out of weapon range entirely. Hopefully your friends and ally's now focus fire one or two down.

If you find yourself as the only escort. You mission is no longer damage. It is survival. You are bait.
+1. For those reading the above and disagreeing, there is what the 'problem' is. Escort drivers believe that they and they alone should be the one that wins the glory. Not the class, but the human player playing the game. I am not trying to make this a Fed vs Klingon thing because it is not, or at best only on the periphery of the reason what is the root of this issue. It has to do with wanting to capture that storybook James Kirk feeling of never loosing playing the Federation side. Lip service is paid to the 'team' concept of course, but it is never really truly believed, because that 'the Federation never looses' concept is ingrained from canon. Those that play the Klingon side, because of the mechanics of the game take a more realistic approach because those mechanics teach us to be that way. They literally force us to team and teach us that the fist is always mightier (and safer) than the finger.

Allow me to present a scenario to illustrate. Please note that I will be using you and your within the scenario which will be generic you and yours and do not mean you personally. Look at it honestly and try to imagine what you yourself would honestly do rather than what you wish you would do. You in an escort spawn in to Cracked Planet with another escort, and two cruisers with a science vessel. You are playing T2. Your team is not a pre-made, but not inexperienced as all are lvl 12-13. Your first reaction and practice from experience is to ball. This is sound defensive doctrine. Your second reaction is to form a team. Again sound doctrine as it allows you to trade information about what capabilities you and your teammates have. As you are pre-made and probably do not have access to some voice chat, you use the team text chat. Some time passes and you start getting nervous as you know the Klinks are out there but that damn cloak of theirs is more than annoying. You want to get it over with. Up to this point YOU are probably nodding your head saying 'yup that is me'. This is where it goes wrong and makes the point mentioned above. The Klinks de-cloak and alpha strike and it is YOU.

Now to illustrate my point; your first reaction upon hearing 'Warning. Shields Failing' as posted many times is NOT to run by hitting full power to engines and evasive maneuvers or bunker up with all power to shields, but to see what is shooting at you so you can turn and fight. How is this benefiting your TEAM? Have you made a pre-made text saying you are under attack to warn them? You know from painful experience that escorts are targeted first because not only they the 'easy' kills but they are also the class which can hurt the BoPs the quickest. Yet, knowing this your first reaction is not about your team or applying the knowledge you have learned from encounter after encounter but to do a Kirk/Rambo in turning to shoot down and win against all realistic odds.

The Klingon side on the other hand have been taught right from the beginning that the way to win is through the team. Cloak gives us a first strike advantage, and while our weapons are powerful yes, they are not ALL powerful. A lone BoP that jumps an escort can just about get that escort to a kill, but not quite. After that, it becomes a bank and weave melee which more times than not will result in the BoP loosing (not due to less maneuverability, but because of a weaker hull and bleedthrough damage). This teaches us to ALWAYS attack with pairs and groups. This further teaches us that our BoPs are indeed eggshells with a big gun.

Now let us reverse that scenario. In this case you are playing the Klingon. You have learned it is the team that wins not you personally. Your 5 man team is all cloaked and you have the same scenario as above with regards pre-made and text chat. In this scenario you do not face ANY escorts but 3 cruisers and 2 science ships. No easy kills here. This is where the script changes somewhat from the usual occurrence when playing as a Fed. That is not to say it ALWAYS happens because we too have our Rambos but is common enough to be relied upon (and where the TEAM can actually USE the Rambos to best effect as well). After waiting and observing for what seems forever, analyzing the Fed ball movement patterns and looking for ANY ***** or mistake, one Klingon, usually the best tank, will volunteer to de-cloak and be focus fired to allow the rest of the team to bag one hopefully two kills. He volunteers knowing that he has maybe a 10% chance of surviving as he needs to be focus fired by the complete fed ball in order to draw their attention to him and allow the team to attack opposite from him. De-cloaking alone will not cause the ball to react, but attacking one of those same ships will. This is why it illustrates that difference. I am not saying that that player is more noble blah blah, but that he has been taught that he alone does not win, but that the TEAM wins.

Same game, different equipment and a totally different mental mindset is what is illustrated above. Until that understanding of the mindset is acknowledged and applied to the game dynamics, calls for nerfs will never be taken seriously.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
02-03-2010, 08:11 PM
well, one thing i should mention, sudden escort death syndrome (SEDS)is much less prevalent in t3, since about half ot he Akiras will be mounting Reverse Shield Polarity and the Klinks love cannons too much to use Beam Target Shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
02-03-2010, 11:44 PM
Funny for me as fed science vessel it is more like 90% win in space pvp. U sure u play it right ? If a klingon decloak behind u and tractor beam to nuke u down just use sensor jam or brace impact or even both. And dont forget u also cn break tractor beam or make it less effective by using more power in engines.

But u kinda right that the firt guy focused by the klinogn group dies fast. But this is due to the fact no1 heals in the game. I have heavily focused on healing and when I apply my buffs I heal for 6000 + 50% less dmg buff for 20 sec. That can counter 2 Klingons nuking 1 fed. Normally enough to win the fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
02-04-2010, 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe
well, one thing i should mention, sudden escort death syndrome (SEDS)is much less prevalent in t3, since about half ot he Akiras will be mounting Reverse Shield Polarity and the Klinks love cannons too much to use Beam Target Shields.
Beam target shields will still heal the shields under RSP until it 'procs' and they evaporate.

RSP isn't the be all that some make it out to be either...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
02-04-2010, 02:06 AM
T1 -T2 klingon are insanely broken and can win easily if they arent stupid

T3 Klingons are still overpowered because of cloak, but fed atleast now have a smaller chance to win thanks to reverse shield polarity
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
02-04-2010, 03:52 AM
The problem comes from people using solo skills and then trying to PVP. People are equipped to maximise solo potential whilst grinding quests to be honest. I personally did the same whilst getting my fed to 45, ALL my skills were to aid my soloability not to help anyone else.

Even people I know do the same (science ships with NO teambuffs) just skills that aid themselves.

And due to klingons doing PVP primarily they're obviously going to have PVP orientated skills.

It still depends on player skill and their ability to adapt, a game in OB, it was all fed cruisers. Playing klingon and a random team, group together, decide to attack one, 3 klingons die because the others healed the cruiser we were targetting and we didn't react to take them down, regroup. call a target list of the healers we now know, repeat till win.

btw- How does MES stand now in pvp?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
02-04-2010, 07:03 AM
I am seriously howling at people who say that Klingons that Battle Cloak during a fight are without honor. Without honor, no, smart, yes. Let me explain.

You use your fedball because 1v1 you get smoked (because most of you PVE most of the time and have not been forced to learn to PVP as we have. Not that you are all bad at it, but we are FORCED to PVP and get good at it). You get free blues from quests, and outgun the majority of Klingons, but you have not been forced to learn how to play defensively. When you fedball, your gear shines through and you tear us a new corn hole.

Is the fedball without honor? No, because it is what you have to do to survive. Now ...

In order for us to survive and pick off stragglers of your fedball, we need to rush in, get your aggro, gtfo (combat cloak), spin around and pick off one or two that don't rush off to find us.

Your fedball is annoying (because you rip us new ones), and our cloak is annoying (because sometimes you don't use the abilities at your disposal to find us, and you rage over it)

I think this makes for some VERY fun PVP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
02-05-2010, 11:16 AM
*Drink deeply with his Limited Edition Fed Tears mug, with a logo of the Federation crying*

I am getting to like this game more with every Fed Crying thread.

Yours in merciless Plasma,
Star¤Dagger
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40 team work over gear.
02-05-2010, 12:11 PM
I hear so many people talking about OP. But truth is, you could have all the best gear and all the skill points for all your Boff's but if you charge into a ball at full impulse you will have no REAL weapon power or shield power for aprox 12 sec. ( keep your power meter on setting 3 to see the fluctuation) in that time you ill be getting pummeled by all 5 enemies at once.

so its not that the enemy is overpowered, you are under powering your self when you fight like that.

Tactical solution, if your fed stay in a tight ball and let them come to you. 10 to one says they will come at full impulse. focus fire on the bird first!.

Tactical solution, if your Klingon slow to normal speed 20km out and group in a tight formation. this keeps you all hitting the same shield for max penetration. focus fire on the science ships first. then escorts.
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