Go Back   Star Trek Online > Information and Discussion > Ten Forward
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,014
# 11
01-03-2014, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steampunker7 View Post


One of the biggest problems with Star Trek V is how out of place it feels compared to the other movies. As I said II, III, IV and VI all have such a tight continuity and so many recurring and interlocking themes that V feels like it was made in a vacuum. It directly references no events from the films before it and is not mentioned by anything after it. You can literally pluck it right out and nothing is lost or gained.

Other thoughts?
Actually, it DOES reference previous events, quite succintly.

McCoy at the campground, "I liked him better before he died."

butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Career Officer
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 453
# 12
01-03-2014, 11:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by warmaker001b View Post
Star Trek movies had always been known for good special effects. Final Frontier was the exception. The first scenes was the first indicator of what was to come.
Yup, Paramount cheaped out on the SFX and didn't go to ILM, which certainly didn't help the film. I remember reading somewhere even Shatner (who directed) was not happy with the limitations placed on him in that regard. The "God" scenes were envisioned to be so much better for example.
Commander
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 337
# 13
01-04-2014, 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
This above.... and how did "god" lock himself into the center of the universe? Did he go on a bender and lose his keys? Why would "god" need keys anyways?
If this being trapped in the center of the universe is not god, then what or who is he? Does Q know about him? Is it the Devil? If so, where is God? and is the center of the universe the bottomless pit since it is a black hole? In which case how can its floor be covered in burning pitch?
I thought the point was that the being at the center of the universe was clearly not God.

Actually, it would explain the scientifically nonsensical barrier at the center of the galaxy. Whoever or whatever put him there didn't want him getting out, and didn't want anyone stumbling over him. Foundry bait!

As for the OP, you make some good points. Final Frontier is kinda crummy no matter how you cut it, but it would have been a better first movie than fifth movie. It probably would have killed the franchise if it really had been the first movie, but still.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,764
# 14
01-04-2014, 06:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by earlnyghthawk View Post
Actually, it DOES reference previous events, quite succintly.

McCoy at the campground, "I liked him better before he died."
Also, Enterprise-A.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, lovely, I can't even requote the Douglas Adams quote I used to have here I WANT IT BACK!!!!
Dalo Lorn
DaloLorn, StarCraft 2 Roleplayer and proud of it.
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 80
# 15
01-04-2014, 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfreeman98 View Post
Yup, Paramount cheaped out on the SFX and didn't go to ILM, which certainly didn't help the film. I remember reading somewhere even Shatner (who directed) was not happy with the limitations placed on him in that regard. The "God" scenes were envisioned to be so much better for example.
The effects are just a minor problem in V. Shatner was the real problem. Whoever greenlighted his script should have known better. Shatner wouldn't even watch the scenes back because he hates watching his own performances. So who was critiquing his work? The Uhura fan dance was a joke made by one of his "co-writers", that Shatner decided was actually a good idea. The premise was awful (but considering all the God-obsession of Trek, fitting), but the writing was the biggest offense. We all love Shatner here, but really he needed some oversight on that project.

That being said, I really want Kirk's "Go climb a rock" T-shirt in STO.

Last edited by qultuq; 01-04-2014 at 07:19 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 715
# 16
01-04-2014, 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemepwe View Post
This above.... and how did "god" lock himself into the center of the universe? Did he go on a bender and lose his keys? Why would "god" need keys anyways?
If this being trapped in the center of the universe is not god, then what or who is he? Does Q know about him? Is it the Devil? If so, where is God? and is the center of the universe the bottomless pit since it is a black hole? In which case how can its floor be covered in burning pitch?
As I recall "God" said that he needed a starship to get off that planet because someone or something imprisoned him there several millennia ago or something. I wonder if it as Q lol?
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 798
# 17
01-04-2014, 04:17 PM
I reckon the q imprisoned him anD spread the myth of the barrier so no one would try to cross it. Deadly for god, but not for non corporeals.
*******************************************

A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,455
# 18
01-04-2014, 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandnaguszek1 View Post
As I recall "God" said that he needed a starship to get off that planet because someone or something imprisoned him there several millennia ago or something. I wonder if it as Q lol?
That's the direction the novels went, though I never liked how much the novels boiled so many unrelated things down to Q, Borg, or both. This is one of the less objectionable instances of it, but the practice in general bothers me. I feel it shrinks and cheapens a universe rich with wonders natural and artificial to attribute so many of those wonders to so few sources.




But I digress. Star Trek V's a good example of an idea that's put through the wringer too long. With the series, there's the infamous "wall of writers." In some episodes, an idea is redone and rewritten so many times that the writing credit fills the screen and sometimes has multiple screens during the pre-credits scene. Most of these episodes show really cool ideas, but the product is almost universally crap.

STV comes from an idea that Roddenberry was bouncing around since TOS season 1: To have the crew meet the literal unambiguous Judeo-Christian God (for a self-styled secular humanist, he had some weird religious hangups he tried to use Star Trek to work through). Exactly what he wanted to happen then varies based on who's telling the story, and ranges from questionable but respectable to hilarious blasphemy.

He pushed it through the entire series, it was part of his Phase II pitch, he wanted it for the first motion picture, suggested it as a way to bring back Spock, and finally got somebody to agree to it for STV.

At some point in production, though, somebody realized that what they were doing never ended well - even a serious, reverent treatment of the Christian mythos had to walk some very fine lines, and there was no way having God and Captain Kirk sharing the screen was going to be serious and reverent. And just in case nobody had this conversation on their own, the whole Last Temptation of Christ (a serious and reverent movie that crossed those fine lines in a runaway train on fire) fiasco would have played out in the middle of it.

Regardless of how they came to that discussion, the result was that Judeo-Christian God became Vulcan god became Vulcan devil became generic space-god became generic godlike being. At this point the idea had been rehashed and altered several times over and the one unique part of the original idea had morphed into a Star Trek cliche.

The wise thing to do with any script at that point is to put it out of its misery.

Last edited by hevach; 01-04-2014 at 04:59 PM.
Ensign
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 18
# 19
01-04-2014, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
That's the direction the novels went, though I never liked how much the novels boiled so many unrelated things down to Q, Borg, or both. This is one of the less objectionable instances of it, but the practice in general bothers me. I feel it shrinks and cheapens a universe rich with wonders natural and artificial to attribute so many of those wonders to so few sources.




But I digress. Star Trek V's a good example of an idea that's put through the wringer too long. With the series, there's the infamous "wall of writers." In some episodes, an idea is redone and rewritten so many times that the writing credit fills the screen and sometimes has multiple screens during the pre-credits scene. Most of these episodes show really cool ideas, but the product is almost universally crap.

STV comes from an idea that Roddenberry was bouncing around since TOS season 1: To have the crew meet the literal unambiguous Judeo-Christian God (for a self-styled secular humanist, he had some weird religious hangups he tried to use Star Trek to work through). Exactly what he wanted to happen then varies based on who's telling the story, and ranges from questionable but respectable to hilarious blasphemy.

He pushed it through the entire series, it was part of his Phase II pitch, he wanted it for the first motion picture, suggested it as a way to bring back Spock, and finally got somebody to agree to it for STV.

At some point in production, though, somebody realized that what they were doing never ended well - even a serious, reverent treatment of the Christian mythos had to walk some very fine lines, and there was no way having God and Captain Kirk sharing the screen was going to be serious and reverent. And just in case nobody had this conversation on their own, the whole Last Temptation of Christ (a serious and reverent movie that crossed those fine lines in a runaway train on fire) fiasco would have played out in the middle of it.

Regardless of how they came to that discussion, the result was that Judeo-Christian God became Vulcan god became Vulcan devil became generic space-god became generic godlike being. At this point the idea had been rehashed and altered several times over and the one unique part of the original idea had morphed into a Star Trek cliche.

The wise thing to do with any script at that point is to put it out of its misery.
Now there in lies one of the facets of this film that was, at its core, a good idea but was so badly executed. In the mostly religion neutral universe of Star Trek exploring the story of someone searching for "god" (and having that someone be a Vulcan of all people) is a pretty good hook. In many respects Star Trek V is more about Sybok than the Enterprise crew, his quest for affirmation of his "faith" and the crushing realization of the truth when he gets there. One of the few moments the film did right was his absolutely horrified look of betrayal when the entity reveals itself and him diving head first at the thing in a rage. "Show me your pain!" indeed...
Lieutenant
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 80
# 20
01-04-2014, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hevach View Post
But I digress. Star Trek V's a good example of an idea that's put through the wringer too long. With the series, there's the infamous "wall of writers." In some episodes, an idea is redone and rewritten so many times that the writing credit fills the screen and sometimes has multiple screens during the pre-credits scene. Most of these episodes show really cool ideas, but the product is almost universally crap.
Nope. Sorry. Wrong. According to our friend, Wikipedia:

"Shatner conceived his idea for the film's story before he was officially given the director's job. His inspiration was televangelists; 'They [the televangelists] were repulsive, strangely horrifying, and yet I became absolutely fascinated,' he recalled.[15] Shatner was intrigued that not only did these personalities convince others God was speaking directly to them, but they became wealthy by what Shatner considered false messages. The televangelists formed the basis for the character 'Zar', later 'Sybok'. Shatner's first outline[16] was titled 'An Act of Love',[17] and many of its elements ? the Yosemite vacation, the abduction of Klingon, human and Romulan hostages on the failed paradise planet ? survived to the final film.[16] In Shatner's early draft, Kirk is overwhelmed by Zar's superior numbers of followers and Spock, McCoy and the rest of the Enterprise crew come to believe in Zar's divinity. Kirk feigns acceptance of Zar's beliefs to travel with him to the God planet, which to Shatner would be a desolate, fiery waste. When Kirk confronts 'God', the image of the being transforms into that of Satan, and Kirk, Spock, and McCoy split up in their escape. Kirk eludes capture but goes back to save his friends from being carried away to Hell."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Tr...Final_Frontier

If you have evidence, I welcome a rebuttal.

Last edited by qultuq; 01-04-2014 at 06:30 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:35 AM.