Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Cruisers - Threat/DPS
02-02-2010, 06:43 AM
I choose a cruiser because I wanted to tank, like most people who picked the cruiser class. However, I'm finding it almost impossible to keep threat, especially in fleet actions with escorts. Is there any actual aggro building abilites? Also, if you change you engines to maximize shields, then you lose even more dps which means you create even less threat. I would have thought that choosing shields would have given you a threat modifier or something similar.

Also in fleet actions, how is a cruiser meant to come in the top 5 when you're trying to tank everything? I suspect the score relates to damage done or something similar because it's usually escorts (usually, I have seen cruisers and science vessels). I haven't been in the top 5 once since we all had Miranda's at SB24.

Anyone else having similar problems?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-02-2010, 06:47 AM
I have heard multiple theories about fleet action scoring so I wouldn't know what to tell ya.


I do know that MMOs, including STO, mobs tend to agro the high DPSer, unless you have a threat buff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-02-2010, 06:54 AM
Well first off you can't think of this as other MMO's. So stop thinking WoW.

You have to try and get into the action first, yeah I know thats hard against escorts. That's where much of the aggro come sin. The mobs have a tendency to really focus on the first person that comes into range. And make sure you have Fire At Will and then pop that off when you're in the thick of it and as often as you can afterwards. Fire At Will seems to pull a lot of aggro.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-02-2010, 07:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerouslyGeeky View Post
Well first off you can't think of this as other MMO's. So stop thinking WoW.

You have to try and get into the action first, yeah I know thats hard against escorts. That's where much of the aggro come sin. The mobs have a tendency to really focus on the first person that comes into range. And make sure you have Fire At Will and then pop that off when you're in the thick of it and as often as you can afterwards. Fire At Will seems to pull a lot of aggro.
Firstly, I'm not thinking of WoW, but the actual combat system in general. If you have a 'tank' class, which is not a concept that belongs solely to WoW, then that class will need to keep threat/aggro, whatever you want to call it. Call it something completely different if that will help detach the concept from WoW. Said tank also has to survive though, and they can't have both maximum dps and maximum survivability, hence in games where there is tanks, they have a way to keep or pull aggro.

It doesn't matter if the cruiser goes in first as that only applied to OB where the enemy took a alpha attack approach and nuked down the first ship to come within the 10km radius. I can work on an enemy for a good 10-15 seconds, only for a escort to come in and grab threat within about 5-10 seconds. There really needs to be a threat modifier implemented or some high threat moves, you can think of WoW if you want but again it's a general gameplay concept when talking about tanking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-02-2010, 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DangerouslyGeeky View Post
Well first off you can't think of this as other MMO's. So stop thinking WoW.

You have to try and get into the action first, yeah I know thats hard against escorts. That's where much of the aggro come sin. The mobs have a tendency to really focus on the first person that comes into range. And make sure you have Fire At Will and then pop that off when you're in the thick of it and as often as you can afterwards. Fire At Will seems to pull a lot of aggro.
Threat and aggro are not concepts unique to WoW. This is a legitimate question. Engineering Officers are considered the "Tanking" class because of the benefits to Shields and repair that their skills bring. It would be understandable that they would have skills or abilities that make mobs want to attack them over a science or tactical officer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-02-2010, 07:09 AM
I dont think these features are in the game yet... We are still at some sort of alpha stage in this games development.

there are a trait you can choose at char creation that gives +5% threat though, and some skills gives you threat, but when that escort starts firing its all gone again and you can never get it back unless the escort moves outa range.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-02-2010, 07:15 AM
As fun as it is playing Escort and being able to tear up a Vorcha Crusier by the time my distance reaches from 10 to 0, I myself tend not to fire first.

Escorts are paper thin as far as hull strength, and if i agro a group, 2-3 Vorcha crusiers can tear me up before those fatty slow crusiers come in and take some of the agro off.

lesson: play in team like fashion and everyone has fun!!! Share the loot
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-02-2010, 07:17 AM
Try using the feedback BO skill, it might help a bit with holding agro.

I play an escort and i have noticed that when i pop all my cooldowns and really peg dps, I tend to get focused on by some of the group.
For escorts i would recommend getting jam sensors. it takes you out of the targetting list of the mob for a few seconds giving you time to:
get away, stop dps, push dps to the limit and recharge shields.
pick an option
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-02-2010, 07:18 AM
Then again, as with other MMO's the DPS dealers (i.e escorts) need to learn to manage their threat so as to not pull aggro right away. For example I also play LoTRO, in which I'm a hunter a primary dps class.. and if I go all out pew pew on a mob I can rip aggro from any tank going unless they've had a real good long headstart.. and even then I guess I can cause problems, so I have to manage my threat levels..

I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics as yet, but I'm guessing somewhere along the line there are skills/equipment that will mitigate some of this threat, but there are other things escorts can be doing if they don't want the full attention of the enemy... not steaming in first all guns blazing, not concentrating on one enemy ship if there are multiple, instead firing bursts at different targets, sharing the threat/dps.

These are by no means defacto lessons in how to play, but I'm guessing there's a good deal of people who haven't played an MMO before in this game and don't understand the base principles as yet.. that is indeed if they are the same as any other MMO out there, to me there appears to be some boundary blurring on roles. In truth we're all learning how it all nits together
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-02-2010, 07:19 AM
STO is a strange beast in terms of aggro and threat generation.

From what I've read on other forums, the emphasis for threat generation using a cruiser is all about having enough energy capacity to fire as many phasers / disruptors as possible at the start in order to generate the necessary threat. Cruisers are supposed to have the greatest energy level capacity due to their warp cores. Thus players are expected to use that to their advantage, rather than having to heavily rely on special abilities. Unlike, escorts which have a relatively small energy capacity (and thus rely more on cannons than phaser banks).
Escorts have the burst damage, but cruisers can sustain damage for longer periods.

That's how I've read it so far, however Dev input in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Something tells me though that the classes and skills are going to get a revamp to cater for better threat generation for cruisers along with a better turning circle for them.
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