Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 29
# 41
01-25-2014, 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by ashkrik23 View Post
There needs to be a mode where enemies can think.
I think thats asking too much but at least give them some AI and randomize the stfs so you dont know where and when which enemies will appear.
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15,697
# 42
01-25-2014, 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by hyymbeere View Post
I think thats asking too much but at least give them some AI and randomize the stfs so you dont know where and when which enemies will appear.
That'd have to be a new STF, but it sounds cool. It also sounds a bit like Azure Nebula Rescue.

I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 119
# 43
01-25-2014, 06:48 PM
I understand the concern. In all fairness the STF's really aren't what they use to be.
One thing I would love to see them do is bring back the old format of STF in as close
to the original format as they possibly can. There was no cause or reason not to
leave the original build in game for players who enjoyed playing them. They could
very easily have offered players the Ground + Space Rewards and a small bonus
for doing the combined version. This would reward players for building teams that
stick together without doing so overmuch. My biggest complaint about these STF's
is that they're all 'Bite Sized' now. We're getting MMO snacks and not a proper meal.
As a player I'd like the option for a broad array of content to enjoy, something that
both suits my mind and the time I have to play at the moment.

Player Freedom is important because this is a game, a pastime, it is about fun.
This is one of the reasons that I very much dislike the way Events warp our behavior as players. Who plays Halting the Gorn Advance any more? Its not that Halting the Gorn advance is bad, the problem is that its just not worth the effort. This has been a
problem in the game for a long time. The reward system funnels player activity
down certain paths regardless of what we the player would actually want to do.
Admittedly that's life, but we aren't on a game for real life.

Challenge itself comes in a lot of varieties. If I could make any suggestion to the devs
I would say that they need to create 'combined stf's' if you will, under the new
framework of how stf's work. We need to keep the bite sized versions for everyone
who doesn't have the time to play these big missions. The reason I like the old
combined format of STF/Fleet Action was that it required the player to be a complete
player, not just a Space Captain that never got off his ship. If people want to just
play Space, or just play ground, let them. Please give us back the old option though.
Next I would suggest some missions get upgraded, more difficult or even extended
versions. Rhiiho station for instance is nice, but I find it a little amazing that the Elachi
are easier to fight in this thing than the actual Elachi missions in the storyline.
What was Cryptic thinking on that? Many of the Fleet Actions operate like this. Elachi
are a truly wasted class of enemies, because they have great equipment and tools
to fight against.

Dial up the difficulty and for goodness sake reward it (none of this 15-20 mark
business). One of the reasons I dislike a lot of the missions rewarding the Romulan
marks is that they're just boring, or their rewards are a complete letdown. Its odd,
but it seems like the most mindnumbing, spirit crushing way of earning Romulan
marks are actually the best way. Chase rabbits around with four other people?
Great way to make New Romulus happy (even if you're Romulan). Save an
armada of ships from Tholian capture - not so much. Reclaim Haakona station
and help Obisek out? Not so much. Speaking of which, what is wrong with the
Voice-overs for Obisek in that Fleet Action? Its like they just cut and pasted
whatever VO's they had for him, without any desire to make what he says have
any logic or sense to it. 'In short it is not' - What are you saying Obisek?
Mine Trap is a great mission, it actually rewards the player properly, it represents
challenge in the sense that it requires teamwork on a massive scale to get the best
rewards. The problem with it is that in the time it takes to queue Mine Trap and
finally hit 'Engage' you could go run around and do the Tau Dewa Daily. Lets
face it, because of of structural designs built into the game a lot of people use
events to earn Romulan marks and don't actually do the Romulan content unless
they -have to-. I don't know what the metrics say, but its not because people
dislike the missions, it speaks more to bad implementation.

Ultimately, there is one thing we the player has to recognize. We're going to
outlevel the content. This is the other pressure that the game faces. I'm
fine with outlevelling the content, as long as we get something new and
challenging to replace that vacuum. It has been suggested that perhaps there
should be a 'nightmare' mode added to the game. I'm not so sure that is
necessary as long as there is enough that represents a challenge to remain

P.S.: Bring back Ds9 Fleet Action, Terradome, Gekli Rodeo and any other content that
got shelved. Don't get rid of the 'War is Good for Business' mission, its one
of my favorite and more iconic missions on the Federation Side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 119
# 44
01-25-2014, 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by feiqa View Post
And now a chance to comment back to skollulfr.

First, I think from our previous debates on the subject, we agree to disagree on the antiquity of the trinity system.
However there is some validity to his statements.

First when we look at the source material I do not recall a single ship flying around just to fix another ship. So following canon the trinity system is broken as it is missing the third leg. By canon.

In STO you can build a healer and be decent. You can build a striker and be deadly. But the tank is underwhelming as they lack a fixed job.
A tank should have the ability to soak a good amount of enemy damage and keep the attention on himself. because big enemies should be able to one hit the healer and two hit the striker. So the job of the tank should be get the main's attention. The healer keeps him alive. The striker kills the big enemy.

For an elite STF this might be doable. If they make tanks tanky and able to hold aggro.
It would require coordination from a team of players to accomplish. As a group of strikers will get shot down so often as to be overly frustrating. A group of healers blasted before they do anything meaningful. And a group of tanks will live longer but still not damage the enemy seriously before they fail. So you need the mixed group to succeed.

So I think it could be done. If they adjust the system to allow it. As it is, it is a hybrid as skollulfr mentioned and one that favours dps over tactics. And possibly to be more casual friendly. I do not know.
There are some nice Embassy Consoles that help in this regard. If you get good
Embassy consoles, and raise the threat skill it will attract enemies to you I assure.
That being said, unlike a game where the Tank is often melee, there really isn't
any point to melee range so most of the time Gravity well and other containment
skills seem to win out as more useful. Still, to some degree it is very possible to
draw attention. The question is whether that is possible if you have a 30,000dps
escort and your 8,000 Dps Cruiser vying for attention. Ther nerfing of FAW
doesn't help in this regard either.

I would say this game is more Controller, Dps, Healer. It isn't as much DPS, Tank, Healer.
That's just my opinion.
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 4,646
# 45
01-25-2014, 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by feiqa View Post
First, I think from our previous debates on the subject, we agree to disagree on the antiquity of the trinity system.
However there is some validity to his statements.
you can agree to disagree all you like.
simple fact of the matter is that if a tank cant deal with the focussed fire of the entire enemy team its not doing its job.
the thig there is, that if it does do its job it will either be immortal or ignored in favor of killable targets.

if npc's hit soft enough that one ship can casually absorb the incoming damage, you and your team is better off with a higher dps ship, and if the npc's are hitting hard anough to challenge that you have broken the game for anyone else because they just get skudded by some cheap ass one hit kill.
Figure out and address the players path of least resistance to reward. this one thing is THE consistent factor undermining all your efforts. be that crafting, raids or starbase projects.
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 29
# 46
01-26-2014, 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
That'd have to be a new STF, but it sounds cool. It also sounds a bit like Azure Nebula Rescue.
Azure Nebula Rescue has a scripted pattern too.
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,395
# 47
01-26-2014, 04:11 AM
Nightmare mode needs to happen.

Everything is OP, plz nerf
Fleet Admiral Rylana - U.S.S. DNT Omega X
=== Vice Squad/House of Tlhap-Jen ===
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,451
# 48
01-26-2014, 04:47 AM
Originally Posted by rylanadionysis View Post
Nightmare mode needs to happen.
Hypothetical scenario:
Nightmare mode happens, this includes more NPC dps (rather than straight damage), NPCs get more skills and the AI gets an improvement, A2B builds get rippied to shreds, other minimum defence builds get shredded, well rounded builds excel.

Yeah, I like this mode
Tacofangs is (genuinely) the best dev ever and the forumites adore him
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 29
# 49
01-26-2014, 03:13 PM
Thing is: People dont need to worry about their ship getting destroyed because there is next to no penalty involved. Heck, in many cases its easier and quicker to just suicide than to retreat and heal. Sacrificing firepower for survivability is just not necessary.

Therefore, regarding "elite" pve content:
  • If your ship gets destroyed, it remains and definitely is DESTROYED, which means you can NOT use it again for the remainder of the mission. This includes equipment and bridge officers.
  • You can use another ship in your line-up.
  • Ships are rated ("combat value" points) according to their tier, type, quality of equipment etc.
  • Every stf has a contingent of points each players can use.

Now the Big Example: Khitomer Space Elite has a contingent of 20 points per player.
A player uses his badass ship which does megatons of damage. This ship has a combat value of 11 points.

Which means: If he gets destroyed, he can not use this ship or another ship which is rated 11 points, but he has to use a backup ship, which is only worth 9 points.

Resulting in:

More brains over brawn. (is this asking too much?)

Elite content needs more coordination since no one wants himself or his teammate to be forced to play with an inferior ship.

Tanks and healers are more valuable.

Sweet, sweet moneys for the devs because players will need more ships, more ship slots, more boff slots and more equipment.

Keep in mind: This is just a quick concept to make end game content more challenging, details need to be fleshed out of course.

Last edited by hyymbeere; 01-26-2014 at 03:16 PM.
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,451
# 50
01-26-2014, 05:21 PM
Or we could just make NPCs more player like in terms of their capabilities, where the difficulty comes from the level of skill exhibited by the AI behind the NPCs which would vary from one difficulty setting to the next, bamm, NPC get more weapons, thus more damage, they get abilities and the AI gets the upgrades to use them effectively.

That would make difficulty is STO.
Tacofangs is (genuinely) the best dev ever and the forumites adore him

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