Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 1 Has damage got out of control?
01-14-2014, 02:14 AM
Title says it all really, but with players able to do 50k+ average dps and with others pushing half a million spike damage is this throwing a lot of things out of balance?

Sure min/maxers will always get the most out of things but when the max is so high and the min is so low, especially with very inexperienced players, it can really skew the numbers and experience.

Obviously so PvP doesn't become a tank off any reduction in damage has to have healing and possibly resistance nerfed with tweaking of NPCs to remove one shots.

Still is it time the amount of damage we do over the top and maybe needs looking at or even diminishing returns to homogeneity?

Edit:Here is where you can find the DPS channels combatlog reader and it even allows you to check how high your dps is and how high others are via the league table. This is the post about the DPS channels and what they are about.

Disclaimer:This is not to diminish what Mal Reynolds, Porch, Hellspawny, Dennis, John and many many others do. They're excellent pilots and do a lot of testing to reveal broken stuff.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.

Last edited by bpharma; 02-10-2014 at 11:02 AM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,729
# 2
01-14-2014, 02:18 AM
I can answer that by simply answering your thread title. YES.
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 3
01-14-2014, 04:23 AM
I like to think I've done a decent job of min/maxing my skill tables but I've yet to break the 15k mark with any of my many build attempts, even the A2B FAW+APB spam attempt...

My answer would be to implement some kind of dps cap, that would only affect the top end min/maxers but equally it would result in much rage so it's prolly a bad idea. I think one answer to 50k dps-ers is to limit the number of times debuffs can stack on a target, I've never seen a ship 50k dps on it's own, it's always been with other 20k to 30k guys.

Another potential answer, in pve at least, is to give all insta-healing targets (nanite gens, transformers, gateways, relevant cubes) built in FBP... not Kax style of course That would end badly but rather strong nonetheless, perhaps 50% returned to owner? That would result in a lot of bleedthrough and a harsh end to the current "FAW is everything" attitude that has taken hold in the game recently.

The easiest way to implement this I think would be to make "Borg Repair Nanites" a passive effect (Not removed by SNB, blue icon) that carries said FBP, hell it would even make CSV pilots think twice, the only thing not affected would be science AOE like Grav wells and Tykens rifts though owned by the player own the damage done to them and FBP doesn't respond to it.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
# 4
01-14-2014, 04:45 AM
sorry, but this idea is stupid.

You want to nerf FAW-Spam? Just make each beam array drain 20 energy for hitting 2 targets simultaneously.



This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~BranFlakes

Last edited by pwebranflakes; 01-14-2014 at 07:04 PM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,203
# 5
01-14-2014, 04:49 AM
I think people here have just gotten a bit too obsessed with dealing damage, so they find all the ways to maximise that particular part of the game while minimising everything else, decrying other ways of playing as a 'waste of time'. To use an analogy, to a hammer every problem looks like a nail.

Bear in mind that yes, a lot of the power creep has made the top performers parse even higher on ACT. But it also lifts the less able players up from the 2k dps area and be a bit more effective. I'd be willing to bet these players constitute the largest bloc of players in the game, but they're not really represented here on the forums largely because they probably have better things to do unlike us :v

Maybe what they should do is revamp the endgame content a bit, give it a third difficulty bracket. Maybe demote what is currently called elite into 'advanced' and the new improved stuff can be the new 'elite'. Or get rid of normal entirely. But I just bet if they did that, people would QQ because they can no longer sleepwalk through ISE in less than 5 minutes.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,000
# 6
01-14-2014, 04:53 AM
This is about damage in general, not dps channels specifically. There are people who can stack what must be close to a 1 million damage alpha strike in less than a second or two. That is just as game breaking as high dps especially for PvP.

I also am referring to how it's throwing out other aspects of the game like shield drains, energy weapons being used for hull damage over torpedoes, a short stun or disable is a death sentence in PvP and in PvE they have little to no meaningful effect amongst other things.
------
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.

Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,764
# 7
01-14-2014, 05:02 AM
As a casual PvPer who can barely dent a farmer in Kerrat, I say No.

Like myself if a player is not scoring high enough damage thrn somrthing is wrong in the application of attack, not the mechanics themselves.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,046
# 8
01-14-2014, 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowpig74 View Post
You want to nerf FAW-Spam? Just make each beam array drain 20 energy for hitting 2 targets simultaneously.
Not nerf FAW spam, answer it. If I wanted to nerf FAW I would tie an extra 100% drain to it, no, what I want to do is to make constant FAW spam a bad idea, bring some gameplay into STO rather than endless spacebar spam everywhere you look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
This is about damage in general, not dps channels specifically.
Sorry if I gave the idea I was targeting dps channels, I wasn't. I was using the numbers as example figures to back my point.
Republic Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 147
# 9
01-14-2014, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpharma View Post
This is about damage in general, not dps channels specifically. There are people who can stack what must be close to a 1 million damage alpha strike in less than a second or two. That is just as game breaking as high dps especially for PvP.

I also am referring to how it's throwing out other aspects of the game like shield drains, energy weapons being used for hull damage over torpedoes, a short stun or disable is a death sentence in PvP and in PvE they have little to no meaningful effect amongst other things.
damage in general is a result of high-dps weapons and dps-raising abilities. A solution would be to reduce damage values across the board, which would lenghten the fights. But
honestly: Who would voluntarily fight a borg cube for like 15 minutes just to take it down?

btw. this is a reason why the CE was nerfed and therefore a sign, that the designers are more interested in short, quick and dirty fights, instead of long, epic battles.

other aspects of the game like drains, VM have been nerfed because of the above and the forum-QQ of those, who found themselves on the wrong side of a VM/Tykens &c.

similar story with short stuns/disables/phaser procs: if people had - like 500k - 700k hp, nobody would fear a stun. But fights would tend to be very long &c &c....
Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
# 10
01-14-2014, 06:14 AM
As far i can tell hight (STF) damage builds have one sole reason. To go trought the daily dilithium grinding routine as fast is possible. Is this simple.

So no, i don't think DPS is out of controll. I think the game mechanism caused this. because the players only want to get over the STF rounds, wich ones is one of the best if not the best way to make dilithium, with multiple toons, but to do this with dunno? Let's just say 3-5 toon, is dull! Annoyingly dull.

And the faster we done with this sooner we can do something wich is actually fun.
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