Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 633
# 61
01-16-2014, 09:30 AM
Well, actually, cryptic could be a bit more intelligent with their penalty times.

Whatever the cooldown is for that map should be the penalty time. For example.. if the cooldown of an STF is 1 hour, then when the AFK penalty was enacted, it should have kicked the player and started the 1 hour countdown as if he had completed the mission, but with the difference of no rewards.

In the case of a PvP, then there should be a default minimum time.

This resolves the "big chuck of my night spent waiting on penalty expirations" but also sends a clear message to not be AFK

Just my 2 cents and what I would do if I were programming this game. Alas, I am not
my new saying is "cryptic made me do it" in lieu of the the "devil"
Member since January 2010. I AM NOT A PWE FAN!!!!
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 265
# 62
01-16-2014, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicha0 View Post
Except there isn't a leaver penalty in private matches, so.. no that made no sense, thanks for the effort though.
There is no leaver penalty for private queues correct, but the afk penalty is in full effect.

And the workaround for afk penalty is simple, just switch to an alt character.
Free jkname
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 24
# 63
01-16-2014, 09:54 AM
Quote:
There is no leaver penalty for private queues correct, but the afk penalty is in full effect
Also it prevents the forming of a private que with the player under the AFK penalty. A lot of good discussion going now on how this can be improved upon. Ultimately it is not that an AFK system should not exist, but that the penalty should be measured and fully considered on its impact.
Captain
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,014
# 64
01-16-2014, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deniedexistence View Post
That's just the thing though, it is designed to BE hostile. Because people who AFK aren't being fair to others who are actually trying to -play- a game instead of having others play it for them.

Are there false positives? Sure. But I'd rather suck up the false positives than let the afkers continue to be able to mooch off players who are actually trying to play the game.
Well, to be fair and honest, for me, it's "I'd rather put up with a certain number of false positives". As in, if it's a respectably low number, then yes, a few slip-ups here & there ARE going to happen. Nature of the beast. Also, having a system in place, at least, that deals out a low number of false positives, helps lower the problem, while the company possibly works on a better detection system.
If it was an excessive number, than no, I would agree in that case, that no detection system is better than having one.
And sure, does getting hit with a false, suck? Surely does. But if it's super rare, then just switch characters, or go do something else, or come back the next day. Because as one of those that has had to put up with a crappy leecher MULTIPLE times, I would rather have the crappiest elitest noob ever made, than having a leecher around. At least the elitest fool, while he may be only slightly useful, the leecher is totally non-useful, and get's rewarded for MY work, as well as the work of any others in that particular mission.
And as to the "is the AFK'er not just merely like someone who leaves, thus should only suffer the same penalty as one who leaves?" comment. I say, no he is not. He is worse. If someone leaves, one, there is the possibility that someone else MAY come in to fill that empty slot. Whereas the leacher, get's to do at the most so extremely little, to nothing, yet gets a reward? Nope, they are worse, and thus, need to get a worse penalty.

Also, another poster suggested an doubling scale per successive occurrences. Again, as long as the number of false positives stays very low, I can agree with that, whole-heartedly. Only mod I would say on his suggestion of account wide, I would say that the first 3 stay character-only. That helps if you're just having a horrid amount of luck on your connection, build, or detection algorithms. However, "3 strikes and you're out", ie on the 4 th & successive occurrences per time frame, have it progress to account wide. Because if it's happening THAT many times, then yes, that's most likely not bad luck, that's likely purposeful leeching at that point. (Probably before that point, but with the way some bugs run around, and other bad factors beyond the player's control, it IS somewhat possible to accumulate 2-3 strikes in, say, a week's time.) And a week, is what I would suggest as the measurable time period. And if you have more than the 3 strikes, it shouldn't reset either, the next week, it should rollover. As in, do 5 strikes in the first week, you still have 5 strikes pending the next week, so the first time in the second week, will be counted as #6, and have the appropriate penalty. Whereas, if you only have 1-3, those would be "forgivable", and reset back to 0 the following week.

butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 24
# 65
01-17-2014, 08:42 AM
I think it'll be interesting if an escalation of penalties were set up. Surely as soon as the leechers find out how to script around this they will do so, so the algorithm will be modified an the false positives will increase.

Be careful what you wish for.

Mind you, perhaps this is a larger problem in the system overall. Perhaps if more content were available that is fun, enjoyable, and rewarding outside of the PVE Que there would be more to do in a group when such things happen. That is another thing to look at. As it stands one false positive can ruin a groups day.
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,826
# 66
01-17-2014, 09:43 AM
First and foremost is the missing information as to how long they afkd.

Now I have spent several instances doing nothing to help, because the game likes to take my boff's out of seating, so I have to waste time putting them back quite often.

And in no way am I a humungous dps dealer, so even when I have dropped into an already running STF with maybe 3-5mins left till completed I still have never received an afk penalty.

So the required dps needed to keep the afk penalty from happening must be super low, and the time frame for doing nothing must by all accounts be longer than 5mins from my own experience of being afk for 5mins at a time, and the level of dps I am able to accomplish in a short 1-5min span is nothing super, so the needed dps to keep away the afk monster is really low.

So to say this person was undeserving of the penalty is heard with deaf ears, and my signature best said for those who complain.

Best thing to do is switch to another character till the timer expires for the other.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lunge deals 3252 (1916) Physical Damage(Critical) to Heavy Tactical Drone.
If you have come to the forums, to complain about the AFK penalty, than it is WAI.
MACO/OMEGA/KHG Accolade Bug Link
Praetor of The Romulan Tal Shiar fleet

Last edited by shadowwraith77; 01-17-2014 at 06:11 PM.
Captain
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,866
# 67
01-17-2014, 09:47 AM
This thread has been going in circles for the last three pages now. Can one of the mods just close it?
It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



And no repetitiveepic, I'm not sorry for any of my posts.
Commander
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 380
# 68
01-17-2014, 11:13 AM
Its supposed to be a large chunk of the day, becasue people will enter missions and go afk and not do a damn thing toward the mission just to get the marks...So Cryptic put an end to it. Good for them.
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 24
# 69
01-17-2014, 11:44 AM
Quote:
First and foremost is the missing information as to how long they afkd.

Now I have spent sever al instances doing nothing to help, because the game likes to take my boff's out of seating, so I have to waste time putting them back quite often.

And in no way am I a humungous dps dealer, so even when I have dropped into an already running STF with maybe 3-5mins left till completed I still have never received an afk penalty.

So the required dps needed to keep the afk penalty from happening must be super low, and the time frame for doing nothing must by all accounts be longer than 5mins from my own experience of being afk for 5mins at a time, and the level of dps I am able to accomplish in a short 1-5min span is nothing super, so the needed dps to keep away the afk monster is really low.

So to say this person was undeserving of the penalty is heard with deaf ears, and my signature best said for those who complain.

Best thing to do is switch to another character till the timer expires for the other.
Except we aren't SURE it's DPS. It may be any number of criteria from number of enemy ships, to time on the cooldown after the mission spent AFK. We simply do not know the mechanics well enough to argue justification based on violation of a rule. I understand why they are guarding the rules, I'm not even suggesting they come clean with them, but I'm hopeful that someone will read this and if it is something hidden in there that is causing this unfairly that they tweak it. Remember, close of a mission even if you contributed 10kdps till that last second before the closing timer starts actives a 2minute timer. If you AFKed JUST as that timer starts your DPS could, in theory be halved. That wouldn't be enough to get you the penalty if it was just a DPS penalty, but we REALLY don't know that it is based on DPS. Also for all we know the logic system is doubly harsh at the end match timer. There is simply not enough conclusive evidence to say how the penalty is dealt and in this case then not enough to say why it was triggered.

Which, to some level, is the most infuriating part. For my part I don't AFK, if I have to leave I take a leave penalty, for my part I've also been playing longer than my friend, though as I had yet to AFK a match I was totally unaware of the penalty or could have warned her on it.

My point though is to get some ideas rolling as to how this can be tweaked, either to reduce the false positives, or to make the penalty sufficient to deter AFKers and bots, but not to deter genuinely interested players who had something come up.

Tell me this, who does it hurt to prevent us from flying an Azure Nebula Mission after an AFK penalty? How does, other than extremist punishment, that help improve your experience of the game rather than just diminishing ours?

Also outrageous penalties are a fine idea for those who are committed to this game above and beyond everything else in their lives. However, this game will NOT continue based on the experiences of those putting in 20+hrs a day at the keyboard but instead on those putting in an hour, or two, per day. Those are the players who have busy lives and for whom life does get in the way sometimes. Those are the players who wind up paying the bills. I mean that not to speak on my own investment in the game but instead to say, no matter what I as one player contribute the cost of keeping the servers, programs, and profit margin all in check will be impacted more by the casual player than the die-hard.

Again, I'm not for getting rid of the penalty, but a tweaking of the logic that applies it, and perhaps a tweaking of the penalties impact. Also not everyone runs Alts as not everyone plays JUST to farm dilithium. Consider also the impact this rule, which is not clearly laid out or explained in anything close to a reasonable manner during the game, has on new players. Remember without new players we will eventually not have a game to play.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 751
# 70
01-17-2014, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazinger2010 View Post
Tell me this, who does it hurt to prevent us from flying an Azure Nebula Mission after an AFK penalty? How does, other than extremist punishment, that help improve your experience of the game rather than just diminishing ours?
The time penalty is there to try to break the cycle, so unscrupulous players don't just simply jump into another mission to do it again.

Mazinger, you do understand that the AFK situation was growing and totally out of control before this right?
The situation, as it is, may not be perfect, but it's way better then what was happening before it.

If it stops one AFKer, it works far better than what we've had, which was chaos.

Let's not tweak in into something less effective just because of a personal opinion. You feel it's too heavy handed?
There are those that disagree.

I think going AFK, is the equivalent of either griefing team members, or a dilithium exploit.

I think people who get banned repeatedly should face an account ban and have to explain to Cryptic why they keep getting banned. Let Cryptic review their data and sort it out as they see fit.

Every game has harsh penalties when it comes to exploits and griefing.
PLEASE fix the Dauntless. See suggestion below
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
how to make it too good (10/10)- if the LT tac was uni, it would probably be a 9/10, an extra LT eng or sci would have wonderful usefulness. this actually sorta, kinda, NEEDS to happen. 10/10 would make the LTC universal instead.

Last edited by vengefuldjinn; 01-17-2014 at 02:34 PM.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:12 AM.