Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,360
# 71
01-17-2014, 02:23 PM
Stuff comes up. The baby cries. The dog knocks over your beer. The cops show up with one of your kids in custody. Your spouse yells at you. The repo man comes for your Escalade, and then there's a zombie outbreak.

None of which is anyone else's problem. If you need to be away from your machine for even a few minutes, you need to leave the match and deal with the leaver penalty. If your life is such an unrelenting disaster that you cannot set aside 20 minutes for a "raid," then you shouldn't be subjecting your team mates to your presence at all. Sorry, but that's life, and life doesn't care what you think is "nice" or "fair." It is necessary for one set of rules to apply the same way to everyone, regardless of your extra special tragic personal circumstances.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,382
# 72
01-17-2014, 02:35 PM
This should be fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazinger2010 View Post
Just ran Mirror universe with 2 friends of mine. We que up for this any chance we get as I'm running a fairly geared character this gives us a chance to run something quick, easy, and fun with a lot of explosions.
Irrelevant to the point you're trying to make. You don't get an AFK penalty from doing anything else except for what it was made for. Unless this is an appeal to emotion in an attempt to get people to sympathize with you by trying to create a common ground. In other words, "People who read this play the game too just like I do, making us besties... therefore you support what I have to say, right?"

Quote:
One of those friends went AFK for a moment, came back, and was hit with a 2 hour AFK penalty. This is completely ridiculous. I could understand a 20 minute penalty but this was just silly.
I love vague descriptions when it comes to the specific argument trying to be made. How much is "a moment"? Is it a quantifiable time? If this is going to be the very basis of the point you're trying to make, if you simply can not effectively communicate anything else right, at least make this the goal of your arguement. Furthermore, whether or not something is "silly" is largely subjective. Your personal opinion does not make fact. Some people don't think 2 hours goes far enough, for instance. And they play the same game you do.

Quote:
I purchased my lifetime membership a few months ago because I intended to invest time in this game PLAYING WITH MY FRIENDS. This however limits that capability as if they have anything come up our time gets robbed not just by a reasonable penalty marker but by a 2 hour long delay.
Irrelevant. Buying a lifetime membership does not give you special priviledges to ruin gameplay for other people, for instance going AFK. Those other people might be lifers too, should they have to suffer an AFKer on their team? Or do they not matter since they are not your personal friends? Does your personal time mean anything to the rest of us? Do any of us really care about how your personal time is wasted, especially since an AFKer is the culprit? We don't know you. We don't care.

Quote:
I really wish there was a refund department at this phase, seriously considering just leaving the game all together. I'm guessing this carries no weight with cryptic as they already have my money but I will NEVER suggest to anyone they purchase anything in this game so long as such an outrageous and unfair penalty exists. After all, the penalty in other online games is far lower or well balanced.
Refunds are not given based on your unhappiness when it comes to the policing of a game. People who are banned from STO do not get refunds, people who don't like Cryptic doing this or that do not get automatic refunds based on an arbitrary dislike of a particular aspect of the game. The real world does not work like that. Otherwise I'd ask Cryptic for an immediate refund of everything I ever bought from STO based on the fact I don't like you complaining about the AFK penalty. You also have recognized that STO is not 'other games'. To compare STO's penalty to 'other games' is a childish way of saying, "But mommy, Billy's mom lets him ride his bicycle without a helmet!"

Quote:
I get having a penalty, but this is just ridiculous. It isn't that hard to code the penalty to be 20 minutes from the time they leave the map for an AFK penalty.
So you agree that a penalty is needed. Good. Now try to recognize that people will be willing to put up with a 20 minute penalty for the sake of AFK farming. It isn't the penalty that is important as much as the deterrant it serves. It is there to deter AFKing. If the penalty is not long enough, then it will not deter. Considering your OP, I would say this is a clear indication that it will deter AFKing. Although you are taking it out on Cryptic instead of the AFKers who caused this penalty to be implemented to begin with.

Quote:
Sincerely Your's
Disgruntled Paying Player
Paying customer means nothing in terms of f2p. More money is made from microtransactions spread across thousands of players than gold subscriptions/lifetime subs/etc., your money is not better than mine.

And there are more people who are okay with the AFK penalty as-is than those who are not. And even those who are not... we really don't care about their opinions since they're probably the ones who were AFKing to begin with.

I'm also willing to bet I've sunk more money into this game than you. If you really want to go with the fallacy of 'paying customer', if I give more money to Cryptic than you do, then my opinion matters more.

And my opinion is the AFK penalty is fine.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?u=91851766000&type=sigpic&dateline=13403  39147
Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 873
# 73
01-17-2014, 02:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazinger2010 View Post
Just ran Mirror universe with 2 friends of mine. We que up for this any chance we get as I'm running a fairly geared character this gives us a chance to run something quick, easy, and fun with a lot of explosions. One of those friends went AFK for a moment, came back, and was hit with a 2 hour AFK penalty. This is completely ridiculous. I could understand a 20 minute penalty but this was just silly.

I purchased my lifetime membership a few months ago because I intended to invest time in this game PLAYING WITH MY FRIENDS. This however limits that capability as if they have anything come up our time gets robbed not just by a reasonable penalty marker but by a 2 hour long delay.

I really wish there was a refund department at this phase, seriously considering just leaving the game all together. I'm guessing this carries no weight with cryptic as they already have my money but I will NEVER suggest to anyone they purchase anything in this game so long as such an outrageous and unfair penalty exists. After all, the penalty in other online games is far lower or well balanced.
So your stupid friend goes afk and gets penalised for it and you're complaining and screaming refund of life sub even though you yourself were not penalised in any way and could have kept on playing while you friend sits in the naughty corner? Make more friends, do some crafting or build refining while you wait for your friend, spend the next two hours making them feel bad for making you wait two hours.
I drink, I vote, and I PvP!
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,291
# 74
01-17-2014, 02:42 PM
I think u not played in time n are one of the meny AFKers that ive ran in to bumming off other people running the mission. If it was up to me it would be 5 hours of in game time ive had to go and answer the door bring bag in i was gone 4 mins and i did not ger the 2 hour ban ur full of it. Read my sig
Welcome to bugs online were we only fix the bugs you like, and will ignore the ones you hate.
These are the voyages of the USS Farmville. Her 5 year mission is to boldly farm where no one has farmed before.
Say No to ARK
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,568
# 75
01-17-2014, 06:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazinger2010 View Post
Except we aren't SURE it's DPS. It may be any number of criteria from number of enemy ships, to time on the cooldown after the mission spent AFK. We simply do not know the mechanics well enough to argue justification based on violation of a rule. I understand why they are guarding the rules, I'm not even suggesting they come clean with them, but I'm hopeful that someone will read this and if it is something hidden in there that is causing this unfairly that they tweak it. Remember, close of a mission even if you contributed 10kdps till that last second before the closing timer starts actives a 2minute timer. If you AFKed JUST as that timer starts your DPS could, in theory be halved. That wouldn't be enough to get you the penalty if it was just a DPS penalty, but we REALLY don't know that it is based on DPS. Also for all we know the logic system is doubly harsh at the end match timer. There is simply not enough conclusive evidence to say how the penalty is dealt and in this case then not enough to say why it was triggered.

Which, to some level, is the most infuriating part. For my part I don't AFK, if I have to leave I take a leave penalty, for my part I've also been playing longer than my friend, though as I had yet to AFK a match I was totally unaware of the penalty or could have warned her on it.

My point though is to get some ideas rolling as to how this can be tweaked, either to reduce the false positives, or to make the penalty sufficient to deter AFKers and bots, but not to deter genuinely interested players who had something come up.

Tell me this, who does it hurt to prevent us from flying an Azure Nebula Mission after an AFK penalty? How does, other than extremist punishment, that help improve your experience of the game rather than just diminishing ours?

Also outrageous penalties are a fine idea for those who are committed to this game above and beyond everything else in their lives. However, this game will NOT continue based on the experiences of those putting in 20+hrs a day at the keyboard but instead on those putting in an hour, or two, per day. Those are the players who have busy lives and for whom life does get in the way sometimes. Those are the players who wind up paying the bills. I mean that not to speak on my own investment in the game but instead to say, no matter what I as one player contribute the cost of keeping the servers, programs, and profit margin all in check will be impacted more by the casual player than the die-hard.

Again, I'm not for getting rid of the penalty, but a tweaking of the logic that applies it, and perhaps a tweaking of the penalties impact. Also not everyone runs Alts as not everyone plays JUST to farm dilithium. Consider also the impact this rule, which is not clearly laid out or explained in anything close to a reasonable manner during the game, has on new players. Remember without new players we will eventually not have a game to play.
Well I can tell you this, not once have I ever received an afk penalty, because well I don't afk for any longer than 5mins at a time. I also am not really caring nor effected by other's who receive this penalty, because well I pug every time. I am however effected by more people actually doing something now since the penalty has been implemented, and not dealing with so many leecher's/afker's like before. So I for one am happy with the penalty as it currently stands, if you suspect you need be gone from the keyboard for an extended period of time over 5mins, than I suggest you leave the mission preferably after 15-20mins has expired from the start of it so as to not even suffer the leaver's penalty. Otherwise take the 1hr penalty and cut your losses, or face the wrath of a 2hr afk penalty!
[Combat (Self)] Your Lunge deals 3252 (1916) Physical Damage(Critical) to Heavy Tactical Drone.
If you have come to the forums, to complain about the AFK penalty, than it is WAI.
MACO/OMEGA/KHG Accolade Bug Link
Praetor of The Romulan Tal Shiar fleet
Captain
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,157
# 76
01-17-2014, 06:33 PM
I can most definitely confirm that it is dps of the whole. Dps 20k sometimes has to pug a spot or 2....rarely...and through these power dps runs, the poor pug does so little total damage that they get an afk penalty.

Wasn't our intention...but it happened
Chive on and prosper, eh?

My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 719
# 77
01-17-2014, 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazinger2010 View Post
There is simply not enough conclusive evidence to say how the penalty is dealt and in this case then not enough to say why it was triggered.
I was thinking about this statement a bit after reading your post.

To be fair, you've not provided anything to support you've said about the incident either.
We have only your word.

For all we know, you're just taking to the forums to muddy the waters, trying to rally the troops to your cause of getting things tweaked to ineffectiveness.
In which case, dare I say you failed.

If you feel your friend was given the AFK penalty when it wasn't deserved, have your friend fill out a ticket to Cryptic. Let them research the incident. THEY are the ones with all the information AND the answers. They are the ones to do any tweaking if they determine it's needed.
They are the ones you should direct your wishes to get a refund for your lifetime membership to. Good luck with that.
"And at Warp 10, we're going nowhere mighty fast."-Scotty
Captain
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,568
# 78
01-17-2014, 07:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahminus View Post
I can most definitely confirm that it is dps of the whole. Dps 20k sometimes has to pug a spot or 2....rarely...and through these power dps runs, the poor pug does so little total damage that they get an afk penalty.

Wasn't our intention...but it happened
If that is the case, than their dps must be 1k or less. I have run several instances with a 1.5k-3.5k and have never suffered a penalty due to average-low dps numbers.
[Combat (Self)] Your Lunge deals 3252 (1916) Physical Damage(Critical) to Heavy Tactical Drone.
If you have come to the forums, to complain about the AFK penalty, than it is WAI.
MACO/OMEGA/KHG Accolade Bug Link
Praetor of The Romulan Tal Shiar fleet
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
# 79
01-17-2014, 07:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hanover2 View Post
Stuff comes up. The baby cries. The dog knocks over your beer. The cops show up with one of your kids in custody. Your spouse yells at you. The repo man comes for your Escalade, and then there's a zombie outbreak.

None of which is anyone else's problem. If you need to be away from your machine for even a few minutes, you need to leave the match and deal with the leaver penalty. If your life is such an unrelenting disaster that you cannot set aside 20 minutes for a "raid," then you shouldn't be subjecting your team mates to your presence at all. Sorry, but that's life, and life doesn't care what you think is "nice" or "fair." It is necessary for one set of rules to apply the same way to everyone, regardless of your extra special tragic personal circumstances.
This response lacks any compassion whatsoever! I feel sorry for you! I will pray for your soul! Someone send this person a PINK heart-shaped cookie! Someone else get them some Pepto Bismol!
Ensign
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 23
# 80
01-17-2014, 07:49 PM
Quote:
If you feel your friend was given the AFK penalty when it wasn't deserved, have your friend fill out a ticket to Cryptic. Let them research the incident. THEY are the ones with all the information AND the answers. They are the ones to do any tweaking if they determine it's needed.
They are the ones you should direct your wishes to get a refund for your lifetime membership to. Good luck with that.
Now I had considered a ticket but to be frank, what would the explanation for the ticket be? A game mechanic that is not understood may or may not be functioning as intended but it is impossible to tell?

That said, would she be able to file the ticket as she is a pure F2P player?

Quote:
I can most definitely confirm that it is dps of the whole. Dps 20k sometimes has to pug a spot or 2....rarely...and through these power dps runs, the poor pug does so little total damage that they get an afk penalty.

Wasn't our intention...but it happened
Is this REALLY working as intended then? Surely there are better ways to measure involvement than just raw DPS comparisons in an "averaged" group. This does start to explain what happened in more detail though and draws the picture more clearly. She goes into this, fairly easy run, with a new ship she is still getting adjusted to, doesn't do phenomenol DPS, steps out just as the Staddi is showing up, and that drops the already low DPS into the fatal zone. Not a time measure then at all, and while it answers my question, it's not exactly a very reassuring answer.
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