Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 515
# 31
01-19-2014, 01:03 AM
I don't see why someone couldn't find a fleet that is already T4-T5 and join. I really don't get what is soooo terrible about joining a fleet.

I am a member of Unrepentant which is nearly T5... half the time I don't chat it up that much do to work and having to VPN in alot plus I have a kid ect.... The fleet is very laid back, just a bunch of mature people acting like fools and having fun. If someone wants to run some PVE... they say "hey who wants to do x".... This is not that hard people...

There are tons of fleets like that. Reddit has a huge fleet an they seem pretty cool.

So what if fleets are OP? ......Join one. The only mistake I think Cryptic has made is that perhaps less people would want to start their own fleets when there are already a bunch of high tier fleets to try and join. I would only seek to join an existing at this point rather than reinvest all that time and resources with a new group of people.
1hr of work @NYS Min Wage 7.25 = 725 Zen
725 x 102 (or current exchange rate) DL = 73950 DL <- can you earn that per hour in game?

Join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,135
# 32
01-19-2014, 01:31 AM
Joining a large or high-level fleet is actually a terrible idea: High level fleets have nothing to do, and large fleets have a Zerg Swarm that blocks any opportunity for you to gain any FC. Very few of these larger fleets tend to permit or otherwise facilitate members to take personal initiative in acquiring FC.

What use are fancy stores if you can't afford to buy any of it?
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,019
# 33
01-19-2014, 01:54 AM
The problem isn't that people are unable to find a fleet to join, the problem is that the game doesn't offer much to people preferring to play in loose groups. Step by step "competative" gear for non-fleet players has been removed from the game and fleet holdings without a doubt hold the best gear available. This is, of course, to steer more people to hit the immensely high paywalls.

Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players. But that kind of dynamic is missing from STO. You don't "play the game", you "work" to earn the best gear which lies behind paywalls. There are no dynamic drops of any kind in this game, you don't run STFs or fleet actions to have a chance to find a shiny, you run them to earn currency to buy the exact item that is superior to other items. You can plan out exactly when you get what item and what happens when you log into the game. And most of the times it's exactly NOTHING until those bars are filled.
-> STO players unite and say NO to ARC <- -> Click if you prefer the old forum design! <-
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"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 796
# 34
01-19-2014, 02:04 AM
What I see as a "flaw" of sorts with today's gamers - and the stance that so many of them seem to have where, if they play the game - they should have the ability to achieve everything they want to in the time they allot to playing, no matter how much or how little it is.

This showed up early in WoW when people complained that "only the uber people can get purples... that's not fair!!!"

Now WoW gives them out like candy, and reportedly, WoW has been bleeding customers like crazy.

Those people who asked for this likely don't even realize that it was getting what they asked for that ruined their experience.

This was one of the brilliant aspects of EQ in the old days- only a VERY few were at the very top... because only a VERY few would invest in getting there. The rest of us, we were somewhere below the top, but you know what? That meant we always had something to work for - something to get... something to DO every night when we logged in.

Analogy: The game doesn't need to force everyone to bake their own bread... but it would be really nice if it had all of the ingredients for bread in there - so that the people who wanted to take the time to make it COULD make it.

Will this mean that the game would have all sorts of levels of "haves and have nots?" YUP!!!

But you know what the difference is?

In EQ, it was the UBER people who burned out and ended up with nothing to do - or hiding from their guild on odd nights because they didn't want to raid or farm (I CAN'T possibly be the ONLY one who would get tells from out of the blue... "Hey, it's so and so - don't tell anyone it's me... I just want to group tonight") - while the rest of us BELOW that tier had stuff to do every day that we WANTED to do...

Where in today's games - EVERYONE runs out of stuff to do, and quickly... In today's game, there is NO home baked bread, and the supply of Walmart bread runs out a few months after you buy it.... no bread for anybody.

STO is already there, and has been for a long time. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if this game had been anything but Trek, I would have walked years ago. Yet somehow, people still want it even easier than it already is. Amazing.

/endrant
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426
Career Officer
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 928
# 35
01-19-2014, 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosetyler51 View Post
Maybe rep gear should get a buff to fleet level? STO is pretty much an one player game from level 1-49 if you want to. When you hit level 50 you need team up if you want the "best" shinnies.
Both OP and you have valid points. Crafting is far far behind on this game it's been pointed out on every major network concerning games out there and yet it's still not been improved. EVEN if they made the crafted XII gear BoP some people would complain because this fleet system is just terrible.

It's terrible because it's entirely too difficult to build and maintain a fleet of only 5 people with limited time people have to play, and it's terrible because things like building resources to keep the stores open are not items that are handled by the game rather than the fleet commander or officers directly. So no one can even take time off from the game without the fleet falling under completely.

Take for example people in the military, if they are called away to duty like in a war or skirmish and they happened to be the person in charge of the fleet resources and they had to leave without saying anything (which actually often happens in all mmo's ) then that fleet is pretty much screwed until someone else can take it up.

This system needs some better brains involved in tweaking it.

If they improved the crafting and the reputation rewards to match the fleet rewards we'd see fewer tiny fleets struggling to get to the end just for the gear (which is actually a good thing). That's my 2 cents.
I would like for the devs to open a poll/feedback thread on what exactly the players would like to see in the near future for the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,135
# 36
01-19-2014, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
The problem isn't that people are unable to find a fleet to join, the problem is that the game doesn't offer much to people preferring to play in loose groups.
Disagree. I'm one of those "loose group" players. I have neither the desire nor inclination to run or join a mega-fleet. Too many people make my brain hurt.

This has not stopped me from acquiring all the fleet gear I could possibly want. Granted, "building a T5 fleet by yourself" is not for everyone, but there are ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by angrytarg View Post
Usually, guilds make organizing oneself in a game easier. They offer support and a social enviroment while their members play the game together hoping to achieve that ultra rare loot. Besides organization, a non-aligned player in a public group could get the same loot drop as guild players.
Strictly speaking, you can get all the best stuff without a real fleet. Admittedly, you still have to play the Fleet system, just as you must still play the Rep system, but you don't HAVE to saddle yourself with the baggage of a fleet with all those other people.

The problem is that people want everything handed to them. They're not willing to work the angles to get what they want. They see an obstacle to what they want, and rather than figuring out how to demolish that obstacle with high-explosives, they just sit down and cry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the1tigglet View Post
Take for example people in the military, if they are called away to duty like in a war or skirmish and they happened to be the person in charge of the fleet resources and they had to leave without saying anything (which actually often happens in all mmo's ) then that fleet is pretty much screwed until someone else can take it up.
So you've got players in the military, yet they don't understand how to manage a chain of command? That seems a bit incredible. If your players were military players, they'd understand how to keep a functioning chain of command in the event that someone is killed.
Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 669
# 37
01-19-2014, 04:40 AM
I have yet to see mentioned in this thread the use or availability of the NOP and public service channels. I am in a small fleet of 8 and we have a tier 4 starbase and tier 2 on the other holdings and everyone in my fleet has obtained all the Elite gear and consoles and Boffs etc by asking for invites on the NOP and public service channels. There are many large tier 5 fleets with completed holdings that will grant you free access. Granted for the solo player with no fleet credits and no fleet provisions you are out of luck. But a Tier 1 fleet that has provisions and it's members have donated and they have fleet credits can have access to all the top gear in the game.
Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,607
# 38
01-19-2014, 04:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantomeight View Post
So what if fleets are OP? ......Join one. The only mistake I think Cryptic has made is that perhaps less people would want to start their own fleets when there are already a bunch of high tier fleets to try and join. I would only seek to join an existing at this point rather than reinvest all that time and resources with a new group of people.
I think this is a problem. You don't join a fleet because you like them, or want to play with them.
You join them because you have all the good stuff that way.
You don't even make a fleet with your friends, so you can play with them, you join a bigger fleet that will not care about you as much as you care about your friends.

It's like "joining" the Rom reputation, it's based on gameplay purpose over anything else.
For the fleet, you are a resource, you are the one spending and grinding to make it grow. For the player, it's a big store.

And I think it's bad.

Captain
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 669
# 39
01-19-2014, 05:23 AM
If they would just write some code that made project cost relative to membership size. Cryptic should look at it from a single player perspictive. They need to ask how much is too much for one player to contribute? Is 10K dil per member per project too much? How many Doffs is too much for one player to contribute? Come up with a challenging but fair about of items and Dil and Doffs a single player must contribute and calculate the total cost by the number of members in a fleet. The cons to this idea would be large fleets with many members that are inactive or will not contribute. They would have a large project cost and members that are too lazy to contribute. Fleet leaders would need to constantly cull the herd to keep their projects cost manageable. They would also need to increase the minimum amout of players needed to start a new fleet from 5 to 7 and once the starbase is started you would need to maintain a minimum amount of active members. If you fall below the minimum you can no longer slot new projects. It should also detect Alt toons. This would prevent Fleets of one player. So the lowest upgrade/project cost would be figured at base of 7 members. This way it is obtainable for smaller fleets but too expensive for one player alone to do.

Last edited by redsnake721; 01-19-2014 at 05:26 AM.
Survivor of Romulus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,268
# 40
01-19-2014, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsnake721 View Post
If they would just write some code that made project cost relative to membership size.
[sarcasm]Brilliant idea.[/sarcasm]

Step 1: 493 players leave fleet temporarily
Step 2: 7 (now the only fleet members) players queue up "small-fleet-scaled" projects
Step 3: 493 other players trade all contributions to 7 "mule" players
Step 4: "Mule" players rank entire Fleet holding to Tier 5 in a week
Step 5: PROFIT!

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