Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
02-03-2010, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerikin_Loukbel View Post
I major focus on the turn rate issue is not combat effectiveness (though it would be nice for that) but the fact that it takes so long to:

1. Collect loot
2. Orient towards where you are heading next
3. Makes groups wait for you (the escorts can have the next spawn blown up before you can even turn around)
Loot collecting is pain. At least for me in every situation. Loot system needs betternment, not ships or character. In space they should allow us to use tractor beams to pull loot for example.

For pother issues i recommend patience.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
02-03-2010, 03:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norikor View Post
Think of your Cruiser as an Aircraft Carrier. When was the last time you saw the USS Nimitz or USS Theodore Roosevelt turn on a dime?

Also, I can generally turn quite well by simply slowing way down or even going into reverse.
Yes, but an Aircraft Carrier has 100's of smaller fighter craft to launch to do it's dmg, it sits miles away, safe while the fighters to the work. Give me 100's of Danubes to launch and I'll be happy sitting off 100km away.

A cruiser is not an aircraft carrier. Nor is it a battleship. Know why I know that? Because nothing on the planet packs the punch of a battleship. There is no destroyer, frigate, or cruiser out there with the firepower of a battleship. Sure they can't turn, they don't HAVE to, they can hit a target 15 miles inland and obliterate it without actually SEEING it.

I don't have that kind of fire power, escorts do. They're faster, more maneuverable, AND have all the firepower. All I have is slow.

I was in a fleet op this morning and a Galor appeared behind me. A defiant was 15km away and he saw it too. In the time it took me to turn around and bring my side arc into play, the defiant turned around, covered the 15km AND killed the Galor.

Destroyer/frigates are speed and maneuverability, not firepower. Cruisers and battleships have TONS more firepower than the smaller, more maneuverable craft...except in STO. If this were the Navy, I"d be happy not being able to turn, because I'd be blowing things away at 30km with spinal-mounted guns with amazing particle effects.

So please stop quoting navy nonsense at me, this isn't the Navy, this is STO, where escorts are king and cruisers are harmless space stations that float about while the escorts get all the glory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
02-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaPel
If it werent explained well enough in series, here is a note of it.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Picard_Maneuver

As for other points you can nearly always outmaneuver or outhink faster ships by altering your speed and also where are you turning. Also if we could be spaceships instead submarines you could do even more maneuvers. Using tractor beams helps a lot also and if there is science vessel present she could target enemies engines and so on.. Gravimetroic shifts etc.. Many things out there to help you.
Aren't Tractor beam's front arc? And Grav shifts as well? I remember avoiding them for that reason...my front arc might as well not exist for all the good it does.

And I'm limited to Lt Science abilities, so the higher end ones are out of my reach.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
02-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macallen View Post
Aren't Tractor beam's front arc? And Grav shifts as well? I remember avoiding them for that reason...my front arc might as well not exist for all the good it does.

And I'm limited to Lt Science abilities, so the higher end ones are out of my reach.
Tractor beams are 360 degrees
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
02-03-2010, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norikor View Post
Think of your Cruiser as an Aircraft Carrier. When was the last time you saw the USS Nimitz or USS Theodore Roosevelt turn on a dime?

Also, I can generally turn quite well by simply slowing way down or even going into reverse.
who said anything about turning on a dime - all of our arguements are to get 2 extra turning - 2!! so instead of 5 we would like 7 - this is the level the Heavy Cruiser is at and that handles as a Cruiser should slow and ponderous but not at titanic levels.

When you have to use Reverse to turn a ship faster something is very very wrong
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
02-03-2010, 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorganUK View Post
Interesting thoughts on all sides, but my opinion (as a long time trekkie is this)

Cruiser are slow and cumbersome, and the turn rates should not be increased. The ship is loaded to the hilt with weaponry, talented officers, and consoles.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but so are the Escorts and Science boats.
So, unless you're advocating for Cruisers to get a free universal lt. slot, then by your own statement, there's nothing but slow turn rate and ONE more gun - no plethora of talented officers or consoles or weaponry - to distinguish Galaxy from Defiant.

Oh yeah, and get this: The Constitution, the START of real cruisers, DON'T get that extra gun.


Fact is, science boats and escorts can move, while escorts can mass-dps and science can tank/harass.
Cruisers can... What?

Tank? Nope, Science does better. (I should know, I drive one)
Oh sure it has slightly more hull, but Science got the shields to take it!

Dps? Nope, Escort does that MILES better.

Support/rescue? Not really, since it can't be there at the right time. (failturn)
And if the enemy feels like it, it's dead anyway.


And besides, WHAT is it exactly us pro-turn buff people are asking for?
We're not asking for 5 to 15, or 5 to 10. We're not asking for a major change in the Cruiser playstyle.

No, we're simply asking for 5 to 6, PERHAPS even 7.
Just 1 or 2 points to make it that little bit less ponderously unhandy in and out of any fight (and currently, it IS very unhandy!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBuck
I hope we get some Dev word on this issue soon. It's not like we're asking for a huge boost.
THIS. MarthaFloggin' This!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
02-03-2010, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moody View Post
When you have to use Reverse to turn a ship faster something is very very wrong
Nothing wrong really. It just encourages tactics and skill. Not everyone knows to use reverse as a batle tactic. Besides many federation vessels vere build as an exploration ships. Not as a ships of war.

Cruisers are clearly meant as a resiliant ships in this game. They lack the firepower escorts have but win in taking a beating. If escorts are safe without your escort then game needs to be improved so that escorts are more vulnerable and tjherefore need you to survive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
02-03-2010, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaPel
Cruisers are clearly meant as a resiliant ships in this game. They lack the firepower escorts have but win in taking a beating---
I lol'd.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
02-03-2010, 03:55 PM
and they are resilient I wont argue there that is our role - but stop and think - this is a game, taking 30 seconds to turn a 180 is just silly - esspecially when the other 2 ships in the tier can do 180's in under 10 seconds - everyone agrees the cruiser should be the slowest turner but why make it SO much slower than the other ships at its level?

It just tortures the player and sidelines the cruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
02-03-2010, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaPel
Cruisers are clearly meant as a resiliant ships in this game. They lack the firepower escorts have but win in taking a beating. If escorts are safe without your escort then game needs to be improved so that escorts are more vulnerable and tjherefore need you to survive.
The bolded text above is what tells me you are clearly out of your mind, or completely detached from reality.

Do you have ANY idea what would happen to these forums and the game if Escorts were suddenly unable to solo 100% of the content and were REQUIRED to have a cruiser for ANY of it?

If > 5% of the devs fly cruisers as their favorite ship, I would be surprised. No one who has any say over how well a ship handles would have allowed the T4/5 cruisers to be this way, so maybe a secretary flies a cruiser and hasn't gotten to T4 yet, but Cryptic is all about the Escorts.

You nerf their survivability any more than they already scream that it has been and you'll have a mutiny on your hands.
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