Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Lemme start by saying awesome game! I love playing it. Cant wait to see what its like a year from now.
Here's my grievances with space combat.

1) ROLL. This is by far the most important thing missing from space. The way it works now its like flying a world war two bomber. Theres no gravity (for the purposes of this game) in space, and therefore there should not also be an up or down, north or south. I totally understand keeping sector space like that and its a very good idea. However, in combat. Its space. These are spaceships. From the Future! They can roll! Have two control modes! One for noobs and keep that one exactly the way it is now, and one for people that can grasp the concept of three-axis control. You wouldnt even necesarily have to add ventral and (whats the word for bottom?) shields... I really wanna fly a SPACESHIP. They can roll. I just know it.

2) 10km RANGE. First off, despite my passionate feelings about ROLLING A STARSHIP, I get that were trying to keep it simpler and changing the ranges on various weapons would add a whole new list of problems, bug and balancing related. That being said, it would add an entirely new and compelling feeling to the space combat if my phasers dont shoot as far as yours but they do way more damage in close... ect. ect. You know what Im trying to say, right?

3) DIFFICULTY. PvE seems too easy. It should be hard for me to take out 3 frigates in my miranda. And I should not have full shields and not a scratch on the hull at the end of the battle. It seems like the enemy weapon damage (to shields) is far too light. I dunno. Maybe im just pro.

Don't even get me started on ground combat. Sometimes it barely works and its so much fun I cant stop playing it.
I assume this is just gonna get lost in the bowels of the creature born of Cryptic and StarTrek that is the STO forums, but just in case someone important at cryptic sees this I wanna say keep up the good work and youve done an awesome job so far.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-02-2010, 05:35 PM
#3 is relatively easily disposed of. If you check the Dev Digest, they've said that they're already discussing, internally, adding an instance difficulty slider like the one in City of Heroes.

#1 is, frankly, canon. Yes, its silly that starship combat looks (other than the ship models) and acts like World War I biplanes versus dirigibles, but that's the way starship combat is portrayed on screen in Star Trek. *shrug*

To me, #2 is a feature. In EVE Online, average combat distance was around 40 to 100 km. At that distance, enemy ships were tiny, tiny little dots that would have been completely invisible if the HUD weren't drawing a plain X over them. It contributed significantly to why I found EVE boring. I like the fact that enemy ships are close enough that I can see the battle damage on them (and this game does great hull battle damage, by the way). And again, for the most part it's canon, at least to the most popular Star Trek movies and episodes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-02-2010, 05:42 PM
Star trek II - Wrath of Khan.

In the nebula at the end, if I recall they're all upside done and stuff, so it has been done in the ST universe and there's no decent reason why they can't do it again.

Other than the obvious that they've built all the mission areas with very limited floors and ceilings.

The thing that bugs me the most is that I can't go straight up or straight down. If something is beneath you, you have to circle round and round like a plane stacked up over heathrow.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-02-2010, 06:36 PM
just to clarify, about #2. Im not saying the range is too short, I just mean different weapons should have different ranges. 10km is a good base, but maybe have some cannons or torps that can go 15? and some uber powerfull beams that only go 5.

and about 1. I never understood why everytime a warbird decloaked infront of the enterprise it was on exactly the same plane. DS9 mixed it up a bit as far as maneuvers go. the ship should roll!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-02-2010, 06:40 PM
RE: Number 2 - that is in essence, already mimicked to a degree in game. Cannons have a fierce drop off in damage outside of 5km, while beams do not suffer that as much. However, Cannons are much more damaging up close than beams.

So if you're smart, you can still use ranges to your advantages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-02-2010, 09:54 PM
1. Barrel rolling would be cool, but as for the not-totally-3D movement, I don't think it's necessary. Yes, it's more realistic, but I fail to see what it would add to the gameplay.

2. Beam weapons' damage drops off a little, cannons' drops off a LOT, and projectile weapons don't drop off at all. There are already advantages to controlling your distance. That being said, the sharp cutoff at 10km sucks a little...

3. I entirely agree. BUT, you're in a Miranda. The beginning of the game is supposed to be a lot easier than the end...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-02-2010, 10:47 PM
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
#1 is, frankly, canon. Yes, its silly that starship combat looks (other than the ship models) and acts like World War I biplanes versus dirigibles, but that's the way starship combat is portrayed on screen in Star Trek. *shrug*
If you watch Star Trek Nemesis the Enterprise - E did roll (but not completly upside down)to protect it's Dorsel shield and expose it veneral shield and Phaser array to the Scimitar.
As it stands right now in the game, since there is no Dorsel or ventral shield indicators, there is no need to roll.
If they do, at some point in the future, they add a roll to the space combat. The bigger the ship the slower the roll.

What I would like to see is nose down/up from where it is now to 90 degrees, using the current turn rates the ships have now to stay away from the fast "dog fights"

just my two cents.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-03-2010, 06:42 AM
All the issues are stricly game play related. try 3-D combat, somebody mentioned Khan, yep they used it. OP also mentioned easy mode for Noobs (err, new players) and compelex combat for others. Cant happen, this is PvP game at some point, so the 3-D would be an advantage. Also at the current time the enemies dont move in that way, so it simply cant be done without major AI programing besides the player cntroled ships. You would be suprised how adding Up-down would change things.

barrel roll, hmm I like it, simply rotate my starboard shield s to port by rolling. But again, while a simple roll should be easy to program in (more keys to use so we get back to simple/complex flight controls) but the Enemy AI would need the ability, and while it seems so simple, its not. The AI is based on specific flight abilities so adding a Roll (when shields are used like STO uses them) would add a HUGE defence change in combat, so simpley adding it inst a easy.

the range thing as somebody mentioned is sorta in there. Beam weapons have a drop off at range. From a gameplay stance I understand that balanceing longer and shorter range weapons whould be really difficult. Anything with more range would simpley have to be WEAK, or everybody would have the longest range weapons and none of the shorter ones. Basic tactics, if you can shoot and enemy cant, you win.

None of you thoughts are bad, in fact most are good, but not easy to do. I could see in several months when the game is working (you know the stuff in it right now) correctly and the user base is stable (who knows how many wil be playing in 3 months?) some of the dieas would be worth a look.

Personally the beam weapon drop off seems anemic to me. Right now its far to easy to slowly reach range, let loose your best volly (tactical officer skill) and hit reverse and just pump forward sheilds. Right now the beams still seem to hit plenty hard, or that tactic would work poorly. The enemy Ai will just lazily come at you and will almost always keep one shield to you. Very easy to destroy. The only time I see enemies useing better shields (putting a weak shield to opposite side) on me is in close combat, never in ranged.

Right now there is alot of "combat is to easy", and yes, I agree, but I dont know if ramping it up is a good idea just yet. STO is not the standard MMORPG, and many will not understand the combat (ship) and may need time to get a good grasp of it. I would say down the road some combat evaluation should be done. The slider is a good idea, but I hate to think average players will be left in the cold on PvP then (and half the game atm (race/side wise is that). And we all know the People who say its to easy will also say "better Rewards cuz its harder" which wont be fair to the average players.

game design, slippery slope.

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