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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Once upon a time there was a pure PvP game where the only way to level up was via PvP. The developers had to think a lot about ways this could be exploited and what they came up with is something I think Cryptic should consider for STO.

1) XP is rewarded for killing players. The XP value of a player is based on how long he has been alive and how many kills he has gotten since his last death, up to a cap. If you spawn camp someone, they'll be worth close to 0 XP. If you kill a killer that's been alive for a while, you'll get full XP.

2) XP is split evenly amongst your team. If someone is a good support person who doesn't get many kills, team them. They help you kill, you split the credit with them, everyone wins. If someone is AFK/slacking, boot them and they can go earn their own XP.

3) Completing a larger objective rewards XP as well, but the bulk of your XP comes from killing players.

In an "open PvP" scenario, the amount of XP rewarded by completing the objective is based on the number of "unique deaths" over the last 15 minutes within the objective area. That is, if you kill @Slamz 25 times, that's 1 "unique death". If you kill 25 different players 10 times each, that's 25 "unique deaths".
Switching to a system like this could resolve a number of complaints.

It worked really well in Planetside. The only way to "abuse the system" was to start a battle so big, it would end up just being the intended style of PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-03-2010, 08:22 AM
this or something like this needs to be done. For Klingon its all about pvp and winning pvp, and its really annoying to get people on either side who just wanna die and get the game over for the xp. those people ruin otherwise good games. there needs to be a death penalty or some reward for winning a pvp match to get people to actually play the game instead of just grind.

an example would be

game i had had 3 players on both sides trying to actually play the game and 2 on each side feeding the other. now while this game was "balanced in the number of feeders it go to the point where both sides wouldnt shoot the loan feeders so they could actually play the game. When asked to stop this the feeders mere replied want to get it over fast and get the xp i dont care about the game.

with pvp rewards basically the same 1/2 time one side or the other purposely dies as fast as possible there no incentive to win.

basically these feeders play a game every 5 min and on average a real game takes 15 min so if not using the thread starters suggestion at lest make it so wining a pvp match gives you about 3x as much rewards as loosing
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-03-2010, 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
Once upon a time there was a pure PvP game where the only way to level up was via PvP. The developers had to think a lot about ways this could be exploited and what they came up with is something I think Cryptic should consider for STO.

1) XP is rewarded for killing players. The XP value of a player is based on how long he has been alive and how many kills he has gotten since his last death, up to a cap. If you spawn camp someone, they'll be worth close to 0 XP. If you kill a killer that's been alive for a while, you'll get full XP.

2) XP is split evenly amongst your team. If someone is a good support person who doesn't get many kills, team them. They help you kill, you split the credit with them, everyone wins. If someone is AFK/slacking, boot them and they can go earn their own XP.

3) Completing a larger objective rewards XP as well, but the bulk of your XP comes from killing players.

In an "open PvP" scenario, the amount of XP rewarded by completing the objective is based on the number of "unique deaths" over the last 15 minutes within the objective area. That is, if you kill @Slamz 25 times, that's 1 "unique death". If you kill 25 different players 10 times each, that's 25 "unique deaths".
Switching to a system like this could resolve a number of complaints.

It worked really well in Planetside. The only way to "abuse the system" was to start a battle so big, it would end up just being the intended style of PvP.
My only problem is #1. I don't want people getting full xp off me

I had my worst match last night, where I died 7 times 8(

I agree with #2 with a caveat. Make it relative to distance. IE if I go out and solo people, and my team isn't around, I should get all the xp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-03-2010, 08:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorac
I agree with #2 with a caveat. Make it relative to distance. IE if I go out and solo people, and my team isn't around, I should get all the xp.
Yeah, Planetside did that too. XP was shared with all teammates but they had to be within a certain range of the person who got the kill. For STO I'd set it to "visual range", about 25km. So the guy who gets beat up and does Evasive Maneuvers out to 15km can still get credit for the kill if his teammates can finish off the target.


Incidentally, I think Planetside is still running. It's an MMOFPS. As an FPS, it's really not that good, which is why it didn't catch on (there are no "headshots", weapon selection is pretty poor, etc) but as a PvP game they did a whole lot of stuff right. Definitely worth trying sometime just to explore some good PvP systems.

I'll buy Jakelope a 6-month subscription if he wants to go learn the game and see how they do PvP rewards and penalties. There's some great lessons in there on how to create a good open PvP war, too!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-03-2010, 08:48 AM
The clan Im in was born in Planetside. It had its faults, but we sorely need a Planetside 2. And it does indeed remain a shining example of how nothing but PvP content can be done right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-03-2010, 08:49 AM
The biggest problem i see with it is Tactical officers on the ground, there would need to be something in place to discourage them from just going solo. I know i tend to run the ground matches solo or in a duo pretty much leaving everyone else to fend for themselves, and come out of a match with usually 30-38 kills and way way more damage than everyone else, the only time that gets matched is if i'm playing beside another decent tac officer using mostly what i do. I'm pretty sure that's what you are too Slamz so you'll know what i'm talking about.

That wouldn't be so much of a problem in space as if you run solo then chances are you'll do horribly, but still.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-03-2010, 08:56 AM
One thing Planetside did to help with this is to boost XP based on group size. Say, killing this guy is worth 100xp but in a group of 5 you get 120xp split 5 ways. So 5 of you grouped up and killing 40 people end up with more total XP than 5 of you ungrouped and killing those same 40 people.


But also, science officers, at least, are a gold mine to group with, since they cure exposes. I can heal myself with hypos but I can't cure exposes like they do. Engineers with weapon malfunction are also good to group with, though frankly engineers need to be looked at in terms of effectiveness (their deployables are basically crap and their shield heal is a bit silly since shields heal so fast on their own anyway).


Basically, if it's not worth grouping, then something is wrong with the game and that will have to be addressed, PvP or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-03-2010, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KabaalGen
The biggest problem i see with it is Tactical officers on the ground, there would need to be something in place to discourage them from just going solo. I know i tend to run the ground matches solo or in a duo pretty much leaving everyone else to fend for themselves, and come out of a match with usually 30-38 kills and way way more damage than everyone else, the only time that gets matched is if i'm playing beside another decent tac officer using mostly what i do. I'm pretty sure that's what you are too Slamz so you'll know what i'm talking about.

That wouldn't be so much of a problem in space as if you run solo then chances are you'll do horribly, but still.
I see no problem running solo.

XP+ for each group member/ divided by contribution.

So for instance a 5 man group can kill a person and get say maybe 250 points for a kill=50 each or I can solo someone for 150. Being solo has a drawback in both time to kill and lack of support, but I'm the lone wolf when I choose to be. Plus with no autogrouping, most people go solo anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-03-2010, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
One thing Planetside did to help with this is to boost XP based on group size. Say, killing this guy is worth 100xp but in a group of 5 you get 120xp split 5 ways. So 5 of you grouped up and killing 40 people end up with more total XP than 5 of you ungrouped and killing those same 40 people.


But also, science officers, at least, are a gold mine to group with, since they cure exposes. I can heal myself with hypos but I can't cure exposes like they do. Engineers with weapon malfunction are also good to group with, though frankly engineers need to be looked at in terms of effectiveness (their deployables are basically crap and their shield heal is a bit silly since shields heal so fast on their own anyway).


Basically, if it's not worth grouping, then something is wrong with the game and that will have to be addressed, PvP or not.
Engineers could use either a shorter cooldown on weapon malfunction or make it an aoe. Sure you stop 1 guy from attacking but the others blast you in the face.

As someone who is dependant on weapons as a tac officer getting a malfunction sucks. I basically book it to the nearest pole and dance around it till the duration is up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorac
Engineers could use either a shorter cooldown on weapon malfunction or make it an aoe. Sure you stop 1 guy from attacking but the others blast you in the face.
I play as a Tact Eng myself and I'm going to have to disagree on the shorter CD. Yes, I love the skill, but any skill where the duration is longer than the cooldown is a bad idea.

As far as making it an AoE, that would be kinda over powering.The cooldown would have to be raised which isn't what I'd want, personally. I'd rather decent cooldown to lock someone out of the begining of a fight, causing them to flee and abandon their teammates, making it eaiser to kill/seperate them. Otherwise anything more and everyone would be spaming it.

And as far as stopping the other guys from blasting your face....travel in a group.
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