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Captain
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 674
# 51
01-30-2014, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn444 View Post
Pushing a button on your screen each day qualifies as a grind too then. Would you feel the same way if you had to do that?

Fortunately, this "grind" isn't necessary to unlock content as typical grinds require.
Depends on exactly why and how many times I had to do it and what the break between them was.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 728
# 52
01-30-2014, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn444 View Post
The analogy actually fails because most of STO's grinds are not at all necessary to enjoy its content.

If you're a frog in a pot, it's only because you lept into one.
Bull puckey.

Almost the entirety of S8 is about grind in one form or another. There's no reason to really do any of it unless you do the rep. There are no special drops to be had from killing, no experience or levels to gain since you have to be max level anyway, precious little story to be had. What little story there is, is locked behind the Dyson rep for the most part.

Fleet holding? Gotta grind. Personal reps? Gotta grind. Winter, summer, and now anniversary? Gotta grind. Sure you can say you don't have to do these things, but when the majority of new content put out is that grind, what else is there to do? The hand full of missions they release every few months? Just do foundry and nothing but? Doff? (even that's a grind after a certain point) STFs I've done so often I could do them blindfolded in a shuttle?

If there was a regular release of a decent amount of story content, raids, something, anything, it wouldn't be so bad. But it seems here lately the busy work content is far surpassing anything else.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426

Last edited by hravik; 01-30-2014 at 11:11 AM.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,477
# 53
01-30-2014, 11:10 AM
Well done video. I think your presentation really highlights how ridiculous the system has become. Keep up the good work Doc.

-Lantesh
Since Feb. 2009
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 569
# 54
01-30-2014, 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn444 View Post
Pushing a button on your screen each day qualifies as a grind too then. Would you feel the same way if you had to do that?

Fortunately, this "grind" isn't necessary to unlock content as typical grinds require.
Flynn, not picking a fight here just questioning you defense of this. A grind is a grind, be it 1 minute or one hour, the point is if you want this new shiny, cosmetic/gear/content then you have to do this repeatedly in a limited set number of days. To state that someone should be happy it's just for a thank-you ship and not access to a new sector is equivalent to saying "shut up, you don't need it." Well, you don't Need that new sector do you? The reaction to grinding for cosmetics is natural, a shiny ship and a shiny sector are vary similar and it scares people as to what is coming down the pipelines.

Check out my ideas for the game here
First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-F
First., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon Wolf
Wolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
Rihannsu
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 11,880
# 55
01-30-2014, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn444 View Post
The analogy actually fails because most of STO's grinds are not at all necessary to enjoy its content.

If you're a frog in a pot, it's only because you lept into one.
I agree. You don't NEED to grind anything at all. I keep hearing people complain about how hard it is to grind for SB and 4 rep systems simultaneously.... and I wonder why they bother if they hate it. None of my characters has reached T5 in ANY rep and I don't feel like I'm missing out.

Grind is a matter of acquiring rewards. If you want the reward here is what you must do. It boggles the mind that people think they have to have EVERYTHING NOW!
HAIL HYDRA!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I can haz joystick!
MMOs aren't charities. Corporations are supposed to make a profit. It's what they do.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 569
# 56
01-30-2014, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by markhawkman View Post
I agree. You don't NEED to grind anything at all. I keep hearing people complain about how hard it is to grind for SB and 4 rep systems simultaneously.... and I wonder why they bother if they hate it. None of my characters has reached T5 in ANY rep and I don't feel like I'm missing out.

Grind is a matter of acquiring rewards. If you want the reward here is what you must do. It boggles the mind that people think they have to have EVERYTHING NOW!
I maybe wrong, only human here, but I don't think the butthurtieness is from having to work for it in this case, but rather having to complete the stuff by a short length of time, I can understand having to start something by a set date but only a what? 7 day window for error when people have lives outside of the game? I got my Rom to t5 Omega and rom, took forever but it was fun, I run a staircase that still is at t1, don't care how long it takes, it's always there.

Check out my ideas for the game here
First, Vice Admiral, U.S.S. Wolf Pack-F, NX-101687-F
First., Vice Admiral, A.R.W. Moon Wolf
Wolf, I.K.S. Frost Bite
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 57
01-30-2014, 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hravik View Post
Bull puckey.

Almost the entirety of S8 is about grind in one form or another. There's no reason to really do any of it unless you do the rep. There are no special drops to be had from killing, no experience or levels to gain since you have to be max level anyway, precious little story to be had. What little story there is, is locked behind the Dyson rep for the most part.

Fleet holding? Gotta grind. Personal reps? Gotta grind. Winter, summer, and now anniversary? Gotta grind. Sure you can say you don't have to do these things, but when the majority of new content put out is that grind, what else is there to do? The hand full of missions they release every few months? Just do foundry and nothing but? Doff? (even that's a grind after a certain point) STFs I've done so often I could do them blindfolded in a shuttle?

If there was a regular release of a decent amount of story content, raids, something, anything, it wouldn't be so bad. But it seems here lately the busy work content is far surpassing anything else.
You'll get no gripe from me about the lack of story-based content, but if you've played any other MMO, then you'll know this is pretty much the standard complaint across all of them. At least STO has the Foundry, as limited as it is. If a lack of story-based content is your real concern, then I wonder what you're doing in an MMO.

Fleets? Personal reps, shiny new anniversary or Lobi ships? Wholly unnecessary to grind for. Yes, they make some content easier to breeze through, but they're completely optional to the content, not necessary as in many other MMOs.

STO's "grind" is merely cheap filler content that gives players at least something to do on a daily basis. How often do you think its players would log in if no grinds of any kind exist? How many times can you repeat a story mission? Speaking for myself, 3 or 4 is about the limit before I've had enough.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 58
01-30-2014, 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0kami87 View Post
Flynn, not picking a fight here just questioning you defense of this. A grind is a grind, be it 1 minute or one hour, the point is if you want this new shiny, cosmetic/gear/content then you have to do this repeatedly in a limited set number of days. To state that someone should be happy it's just for a thank-you ship and not access to a new sector is equivalent to saying "shut up, you don't need it." Well, you don't Need that new sector do you? The reaction to grinding for cosmetics is natural, a shiny ship and a shiny sector are vary similar and it scares people as to what is coming down the pipelines.
Like I said, you can object to grinds of any kind, but then you're objecting to pretty much an inherent component of the vast majority of MMOs. If you don't like grinding, then you probably shouldn't be playing an MMO.

Besides that, the "grind" in STO is weaksauce compared to most MMOs and isn't even necessary to enjoy the story missions, which most people like. As someone who played both EverQuest and World of ******** at their launches, I can safely say you guys have no idea what a real grind is.
Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 32
# 59
01-30-2014, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by o0kami87 View Post
I maybe wrong, only human here, but I don't think the butthurtieness is from having to work for it in this case, but rather having to complete the stuff by a short length of time, I can understand having to start something by a set date but only a what? 7 day window for error when people have lives outside of the game? I got my Rom to t5 Omega and rom, took forever but it was fun, I run a staircase that still is at t1, don't care how long it takes, it's always there.
I haven't heard one complaint about the length of time players have to complete the ship requirements. You only need to log in 15 days out of the 28 the event runs.
Starfleet Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 728
# 60
01-30-2014, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flynn444 View Post
You'll get no gripe from me about the lack of story-based content, but if you've played any other MMO, then you'll know this is pretty much the standard complaint across all of them. At least STO has the Foundry, as limited as it is. If a lack of story-based content is your real concern, then I wonder what you're doing in an MMO.

Fleets? Personal reps, shiny new anniversary or Lobi ships? Wholly unnecessary to grind for. Yes, they make some content easier to breeze through, but they're completely optional to the content, not necessary as in many other MMOs.

STO's "grind" is merely cheap filler content that gives players at least something to do on a daily basis. How often do you think its players would log in if no grinds of any kind exist? How many times can you repeat a story mission? Speaking for myself, 3 or 4 is about the limit before I've had enough.
I'm an MMO player going all the way back to the early early days of EverQuest. Heck, I still have the yellow CD of the original game that has 989 Studios on it. Believe me when I say I know what grind is. Heck, simple things like leveling in EQ makes anything STO has for grind look like chump change. As someone that played a Dark Elf Warrior back in the day when things like that made a difference in the game, I can share some horror stories about what grind and difficulty means.

The problem I have isn't the grind itself. In EQ, at least for me, the grind was a means to an end. Getting those levels, getting that shiny piece of loot, was my ticket to doing something more difficult. Lore fell from the sky if you cared to find it. The absolute need for teamwork was there. Even at higher levels there were places I dared not tread alone. (Kithicor Forrest after dark anyone?) Death penalties that lost XP, and could even lose levels. Corpse runs with no gear on, and heaven help you if your raid wiped in the Plane of Fear and you didn't have a Necromancer handy.

Now the problem I see in STO, is that grind goes nowhere, yet the grind itself is still pervasive. The only real goal is that next shiny, because there for dang sure isn't anything harder to do. There have been times I'm doing the Romulan patrol, and just bulldozing everything in my way. So I go to set difficulty to elite, only to find I'm already on elite. I suppose I could use lesser ships, or swap out to common gear, but why should I have to intentionally gimp myself just to find even a little challenge?

I love Trek, and I keep hoping this game will eventually go somewhere. Be it story, difficulty, or some form of raids. But instead we get more grind that leads nowhere heaped on top, and its getting tiresome.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=91851990000&dateline=  1341951426
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